Seeking CSL knowledge.

[Rutkowski]

All in all Nathan - I've calculated that CSL steering rack incl. labour to fit, M track mode (which you could well do yourself) steering wheel in alcantara, M3 CS - DSC and ABS reflash (due to quicker steering ratio) + MSS54HP ECU, all comes down to £2200 max.

2003 E46 M3 can be found for around £11'000.00 and if costs is an issue then surely the extra monies could be spent to buy second hand APs, CSL bootlid, rear difuser and maybe a slightly damaged front bumper.

Turning standard M3 into a CSL is quite expensive and costs add up bloody quick!!

Most of the things i bought for my M3 are second hand (in a vey good condition... but the CSL bumper!! :hahaha: ) and my modifications now costs more than whole of the car is worth..... which reminds me, i still haven't done the cracking rear subframe nor the recall on SMG relay module.... :banghead:

[_Nathan_]

Emissions in UK is just probe into exhaust (or the exhaust of another car altogether if your MOT station is so inclined).

[cntrvrsy]

What's the usual emissions test procedure for the CSL owners? As it's looking now, the Alpha-N conversion required to run a CSL box will not pass OBDII emissions testing in the states. Some states and even some counties within a state have different mandates but if you're car is required to be tested through the OBD port, it won't pass. I hope a way around that is found because that's the only real thing holding me back from converting to the CSL airbox .

[_Nathan_]

M Track mode.

CSL ABS is different too - guess the thresholds are higher to allow for cup tyres?

[cantfind1]

What's this about a DSC reflash on a standard M3?

What does it do? Is the DSC different on the CSL/CS/M3?

Not that I drive with it on anyway!

Cheers:thumbs:

[///Max]

Max - why bother with an expensve M3 CS 2005 / 2006 for? Just change the steering rack and reflash the ECU with CSL ECU / SMG ECU software.

The DSC / M track mode software / retrofit is very easy but use M3 CS algorithm. CSL one is tuned for lighter, stiffer car - the software is different. The ABS software is different and no good to a standard M3.... unless of course -unless you'e going to totally replicate every single thing... but it makes no sense tbh.

If you're interested - i have researched this subject very, very well and don't mind sharing the knowledge.

First off - what will you use the car for? Track days? Mixture of track days / road? or you just fancy having a CSL?

I have decided to install all the best CSL bits but leave the toys and comforts. I'm even wondering if i should put back my standard M3 seats but re - trim them so the top looks like the seats from an M6. I drive so little and when i do - it's a road.... but i do like this sprty car feeling the Recar seats give you..... i'm still undecided.

I have Recaros but was thinking of Recaro Sportster CS (the BMW Performance ones)

I'll dig some diagrams for you. I've got all the original E46 M3 options bought and ready to install too. Also little things like 5000K xenons, illuminated door sills, Alpine iPod connections, JL sound upgrade, blutooth and so on and on. Loads of other things in short.

My M3 has close to 115,000 miles so I was planning on selling it in the future anyways, so I might as well get an M3 CS. Plus my car is not SMG.

Ok, so as far as software, if Im understanding correctly, I will need:
SMG software
DSC software
M Track mode software
Alpha N software
CSL software on the ECU
Correct me if Im wrong or am missing something.

Im always interested in learning anything about the CSL. :beer:

More than likely it will just be on the road, but you never know, I may take it to the track.

I say keep the Recaros, unless it gets really cold then put in the standard ones to use the heated seats. :thumbs:

I just looked up those Recaro Sportster CS seats on the web, very nice. :drool:

Thanks, I really appreciate it. :thumbs:

Got to be miles easier to get in to a CS that to buy a new ECU, get it coded, new steering rack new DSC module (extra pin I believe?), new steering wheel panel, all the labour, CSL brakes already on it.

Got to be a much, much easier and cheaper starting point, also retain value better, if for example you spend money upgrading the ECU to a later one you may as well burn that money as far as getting anything back come resale.

You and I think alike my friend. :beer: Plus my car is not a SMG and that is a must on this project. Im also thinking like Rutkowski where I would like it to have some comfort options like nav/ heated seats/ HK/ rear sunshade/ headlamp washers/ and PDC (which comes with the SMG option here in the states). That way if I want to change the car back to normal, I would not be stuck with a plain M3. Also, it is much easier to remove some of these options like the nav and rear sunshade rather than installing them later.

[_Nathan_]

By your own admission 2003 wouldn't have the right ECU.

How much is the difference between a 2004 and a early CS? Remember that you'll see back a percentage of the difference come sale time where as you'll see back around zero percent on new steering racks and ECUs. DSC still requires a wire running to pin 28 switching to earth and the steering wheel requires effort on that part too, along with replacement with a suede one, all these little parts and a few hours here and there add up and don't add any value to the car.

16995 before haggling gets you in to a leggy CS from a dealer, find me a 2003 facelift M3 with the same miles on it (88k) for 6995 from a dealer and I'll buy it, from what I can see the difference is far less, and you'd have a car worth more than buying the old one and modifying it?

[Rutkowski]

Got to be miles easier to get in to a CS that to buy a new ECU, get it coded, new steering rack new DSC module (extra pin I believe?), new steering wheel panel, all the labour, CSL brakes already on it.

Got to be a much, much easier and cheaper starting point, also retain value better, if for example you spend money upgrading the ECU to a later one you may as well burn that money as far as getting anything back come resale.

all 2004 onwards M3s have CSL ECU.

DSC is the same from 2003 onwards on all M3s too.

Steering rack is a 3 hour labour plus £900 for parts.

Coding - 1 hour jobbie.

Brakes - who wants stock brakes anyway?

2003 facelift is still £10000 cheaper than a CS one....

[_Nathan_]

Got to be miles easier to get in to a CS that to buy a new ECU, get it coded, new steering rack new DSC module (extra pin I believe?), new steering wheel panel, all the labour, CSL brakes already on it.

Got to be a much, much easier and cheaper starting point, also retain value better, if for example you spend money upgrading the ECU to a later one you may as well burn that money as far as getting anything back come resale.

[Rutkowski]

Max - why bother with an expensve M3 CS 2005 / 2006 for? Just change the steering rack and reflash the ECU with CSL ECU / SMG ECU software.

The DSC / M track mode software / retrofit is very easy but use M3 CS algorithm. CSL one is tuned for lighter, stiffer car - the software is different. The ABS software is different and no good to a standard M3.... unless of course -unless you'e going to totally replicate every single thing... but it makes no sense tbh.

If you're interested - i have researched this subject very, very well and don't mind sharing the knowledge.

First off - what will you use the car for? Track days? Mixture of track days / road? or you just fancy having a CSL?

I have decided to install all the best CSL bits but leave the toys and comforts. I'm even wondering if i should put back my standard M3 seats but re - trim them so the top looks like the seats from an M6. I drive so little and when i do - it's a road.... but i do like this sprty car feeling the Recar seats give you..... i'm still undecided.

I have Recaros but was thinking of Recaro Sportster CS (the BMW Performance ones)

I'll dig some diagrams for you. I've got all the original E46 M3 options bought and ready to install too. Also little things like 5000K xenons, illuminated door sills, Alpine iPod connections, JL sound upgrade, blutooth and so on and on. Loads of other things in short.

[///Max]

As Glendog mentioned earlier on, i have been turning my standard M3 2003, into a CSL. I won't go all out and remove sound insulation, sat nav etc but have, what i call - the must - have CSL parts. Steering rack plus DSC reflash, Wheels, engine specification (CSL cams and exhaust valves) MSS54HP ECU (all M3s beyond 2004 have it) CSL SMG software, Recaro seats, upgraded brakes, headers and Supersprint 'street' exhaust, CSL anti roll bars, alcantara steering wheel, M track mode retrofit and a few more bits.

Im looking into getting a 2005 or 2006 so it should already have the MSS54HP ECU. Questions:
Would I need a DSC reflash and the CSL SMG software even if the car is a M3 CS?
Is the M3 CS suspension the same as the M3 CSL?

The OEM CSL carbon airbox - installed and tuned by Evolve. Works exactly like on the CSL... perfect and smooth idle and start up. Highly recommended modification. :thumbs:

Im going to have to get in touch with Evolve, I keep hearing good things about them.
Thanks

For the flap to work, you need to retrofit wiring loom and install the CSL software on MSS54HP ECU. The diagrams are available but i can dig it out for you.

Does the wiring loom come with the CSL intake? Im lost on this.
When you say CSL software are you referring to the Alpha N or something else?
If its not to much of a bother to dig them up, I would really like to check them out, very interesting.
Thank you. :beer:

Because they always break and serve no purpose other than to lower noise :thumbs:

Oh, I see. Well that sucks.
Thanks for the insight. :beer:

[Rutkowski]

The flap is also there for emissions cycle testing but its not needed for an MOT in this regard so can be ditched. Roof is a relatively easy change, four bolts and drilling out some spot welds on the OEM metal one and bolts and bonding for the CSL one. Windscreen type sealant works just as well as others although make sure you do a water test after. A few breakers get CSL roofs in but check to see how they have been removed before buying as if you twist the roof as part of the removal it will break down the lacer and go opaque in the sunshine. New roof from BMW is £1300 I think? We did one for an insurance claim a little while ago due to something being dropped on it by a builder.

You could fit a race roof but I wouldn't advise it, they are much thiner and not as resistant to sunshine or water.

:thumbs:

[AlexGTT]

This takes air under the bumper

Ah, the lower lower one. I see.

[_Nathan_]

Perhaps BMW should've linked the flap to the windscreen wipers

What happens if you go over 5.5k rpm in the wet and the flap opens? Does the engine break due to hydraulic lock? Nope, it is fine...

[alexk]

Alex, this wouldn't make any difference. The lower air feed is always open.

This takes air under the bumper