Big WHP S54 Track builds

[SamGrant951]

Wassup Rudy! I just went down a "milder" path when redoing the VANOS on my car, more of a while Im in here type thing. My car already had the airbox in place but was running a very unsafe tune (timing advanced / knock detection desensitized 60-70%) - got that straightened out at the same time.

Wow BBRTuning that is interesting as I just swapped to 280/272 cams and instantly noticed my car is running higher oil temps than previous. Zero change in water temps (~185-195 always) and zero oil consumption in a 2 day track event last weekend (like usual). Im running a Zionsville euro e36 oil cooler / S54 Z3M radiator in a S54 swapped E36. My car is not fully tuned yet as we ran into some obd2 connector issues on my car - so far making 338hp, 268tq. (Prev dyno 322hp/255tq), feels healthy though. Im glad to hear its not just me with the oil temp increase.

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

i guess the bigger question is whats your goals with the build? is it chasing 'big whp' or reliability and the ability to run harder and longer at the track? a stock engine with a good intake, no cats, and a high flowing exhaust can get you to 330-340 whp with a solid tune.

i'm at 300 whp and working with randy at epic to clean up my tune to get closer to 340 whp. my times on the track are getting good enough to place in the time trials, even without the extra power. my goals is reliability, manageable temps on the track (especially during the texas summers), and a distant third is power. with my current setup, i can run a full hour without any engine or cooling problems. i run out of gas first before having to back off to cool down the car.

[CrookedCommie]

I have basically this setup as a frequent track car, albeit with 4.10 gears. As you mentioned the closer ratios really help keep the 288 cams in the meat of their powerband. From just the cams alone I gained right around 20WHP (I'm still running high flow cats). To be honest, peak track speeds were almost identical, maybe 1mph higher on the straights, so it's certainly not a good value per laptime option. I have the rev limit set to 8250, but typically will shift around 7600-8000 while on track.

Interestingly, swapping the cams increased the on-track oil temps significantly. At first I atttributed it to me revving the engine higher more often to get max HP out of it, but in the end I think its really come down to just the increase in power input (directly related to combustion energy, of which a large percentage is dumped into the water and oil), possibly an increase in friction from additional cam lift but I'd imagine this to be pretty insignificant. It is interesting that water temps have been basically identical, so all the extra heat is going into the oil.

Point is, even with a CSF oil cooler, I can only get about 3 laps at full speed depending on the track before oil temps hit 260+*. Not an entirely unsafe temp especially with good oil, but generally around where I'll take a cool-down lap. if I could do it again I might have considered WPC treating at least the cams and rockers to cut down on heat generated from friction. Not sure how much of a difference it would make, but it certainly wouldn't make it worse. I've heard 10-15* oil temp reduction claimed with a full WPC treatment on a track car.

This is why I'm having second thoughts. The car with a street exhaust did 310whp @ ~3000lbs with driver on a 95F high humidity day. Is dropping $6500+ really going to net me anything over a second at a mid size track? I have some doubts. I also wonder about the long term reliability on track, I don't want to add a service interval to the block/head if I can help it.

Great callout on the extra heat - are you a/c deleted? On slicks at full tilt, coolant stays dead middle and oil is slightly to the right, but below the 3/4 mark.

Feffman did you notice any extra heat with the cams in your setup? I believe you are running no a/c.

[BBRTuning]

Looking into getting 288/280 Cat cams, new Schrick DLC rocker arms, Turner CSL Intake, BW Exhaust, and Epic remote tune. Not finding much info online. What are the gotcha's of this setup for track use? I'm running a 3.91, shifts into 4th are at 6000rpm, shifts into 5th are at 6500rpm, so I think the increase in the powerband will be worth it.

Using ISTA or INPA - what are some of the things I can check to avoid running into issues come tune time? Throttle test, vanos test, etc. From some of the research I've done, looks like I'll have to find a MSS54HP ECU, and a splice kit for the IAT sensor on the CSL airbox (looking at the Turner option). What's the typical fuel cutoff for a stock valvetrain? Not looking to do head work at this time, thinking I can just keep it at 8200rpm.

All info is much appreciated, I don't have a local motorsport shop that I can reach out to, so need to diy all of this (minus the remote tune).

I have basically this setup as a frequent track car, albeit with 4.10 gears. As you mentioned the closer ratios really help keep the 288 cams in the meat of their powerband. From just the cams alone I gained right around 20WHP (I'm still running high flow cats). To be honest, peak track speeds were almost identical, maybe 1mph higher on the straights, so it's certainly not a good value per laptime option. I have the rev limit set to 8250, but typically will shift around 7600-8000 while on track.

Interestingly, swapping the cams increased the on-track oil temps significantly. At first I atttributed it to me revving the engine higher more often to get max HP out of it, but in the end I think its really come down to just the increase in power input (directly related to combustion energy, of which a large percentage is dumped into the water and oil), possibly an increase in friction from additional cam lift but I'd imagine this to be pretty insignificant. It is interesting that water temps have been basically identical, so all the extra heat is going into the oil.

Point is, even with a CSF oil cooler, I can only get about 3 laps at full speed depending on the track before oil temps hit 260+*. Not an entirely unsafe temp especially with good oil, but generally around where I'll take a cool-down lap. if I could do it again I might have considered WPC treating at least the cams and rockers to cut down on heat generated from friction. Not sure how much of a difference it would make, but it certainly wouldn't make it worse. I've heard 10-15* oil temp reduction claimed with a full WPC treatment on a track car.

[Feffman]

Looking into getting 288/280 Cat cams, new Schrick DLC rocker arms, Turner CSL Intake, BW Exhaust, and Epic remote tune. Not finding much info online. What are the gotcha's of this setup for track use? I'm running a 3.91, shifts into 4th are at 6000rpm, shifts into 5th are at 6500rpm, so I think the increase in the powerband will be worth it.

This is my set up, sans the CSL intake. I run a Dinan intake with the remote IAT sensor. Horsepower is 356.61 (8,000RPM) at rear wheels and torque is 260.16 (4,500RPM). One caveat, we did this dyno before I installed the Bimmerworld Race Exhaust and the seat-of-the-pants dyno insists there were gains. I'm up for an alignment after installing new front end components and will likely have the shop drop it on the dyno again.

Feff

[ethan]

Yeah, I think the argument is that unless you're really spinning it up well beyond stock redline (say, 8400-8600 with Ferrea or something), you make more total power under the curve with the 280/272s. Maybe check out the dyno thread.

[CrookedCommie]

You probably already know this, but MSS54s can be converted to MSS54HP and flashed with CSL software, so you don't necessarily need to purchase one. Driver for the flap is optional. I used a GM MAP teed off the FPR line - very cheap. Think you're right re: IAT. I just found a matching connector in a spare harness I had kicking around. Simple run following WDS.

I use 3.91 gearing, 288/280 Cat Cams, stock rocker arms, Karbonius intake, CPI headers, and stock muffler on the factory tune and by my wideband it's only a little rich running the OE CSL tune. No idea what you'll get with your superior exhaust, but a tune is probably a good idea. I spin it up to an 8250 cutoff without issue, though I have Supertech valves and springs (probably no better than stock.)

Many will make the case for 280/272.

I didn't know that about the MSS54 so thanks for the heads up - I'm not planning on running a flap.

Is the case for 280/272 to try and pickup more midband? I would think with the higher gearing the car would benefit more from everything up top.

[ethan]

You probably already know this, but MSS54s can be converted to MSS54HP and flashed with CSL software, so you don't necessarily need to purchase one. Driver for the flap is optional. I used a GM MAP teed off the FPR line - very cheap. Think you're right re: IAT. I just found a matching connector in a spare harness I had kicking around. Simple run following WDS.

I use 3.91 gearing, 288/280 Cat Cams, stock rocker arms, Karbonius intake, CPI headers, and stock muffler on the factory tune and by my wideband it's only a little rich running the OE CSL tune. No idea what you'll get with your superior exhaust, but a tune is probably a good idea. I spin it up to an 8250 cutoff without issue, though I have Supertech valves and springs (probably no better than stock.)

Many will make the case for 280/272.

[CrookedCommie]

Looking into getting 288/280 Cat cams, new Schrick DLC rocker arms, Turner CSL Intake, BW Exhaust, and Epic remote tune. Not finding much info online. What are the gotcha's of this setup for track use? I'm running a 3.91, shifts into 4th are at 6000rpm, shifts into 5th are at 6500rpm, so I think the increase in the powerband will be worth it.

Using ISTA or INPA - what are some of the things I can check to avoid running into issues come tune time? Throttle test, vanos test, etc. From some of the research I've done, looks like I'll have to find a MSS54HP ECU, and a splice kit for the IAT sensor on the CSL airbox (looking at the Turner option). What's the typical fuel cutoff for a stock valvetrain? Not looking to do head work at this time, thinking I can just keep it at 8200rpm.

All info is much appreciated, I don't have a local motorsport shop that I can reach out to, so need to diy all of this (minus the remote tune).