M3 gts

[mattCSLnut]

if you remember the CSL was universally slated when it came out and it was massively overpriced and as such prices dropped 35% in the first 18 months, I don't see anything different with the GTS, once they are cheap enough everyone will fall in love with them as they did with the CSL.

I thought the M3 CSL was only :hahaha: £20 000 more then the equivalent M3 Coupe :whistle:

[3wheels3]

...car was 'cooked' in no-time...'quick and dirty'...

Good summary.

Replacing plush interior with two 500 quid SPG's and a bolt in half cage, wing & splitter. Surely that costs next to nowt. Different glass ain't much either. Bigger capacity...ok but for 30 bhp?

This is no CSL! I am just relieved they didn't devalue CSL brand with this jumble sale tat.

[alexk]

Nathan,

There goes the 'competitor'. Check this rear wing.




The CSL was the first 'normal' vehicle that had a carbon roof, carbon interior, carbon bumper, carbon intake.
It had many differences over the standard M3.
It was well-thought and engineered to make a difference.
The CSL was a pioneer in extreme 'normal' cars, that's why the press attacked it.

Did we see the GTS in any major car-show ? NO
Why ? Isn't it obvious that they were in a rush ?
It doesn't even have a different front bumper.

I know that many people will love it (maybe they will sell 50 of these) and track it.
But we are forgetting that we are in 2009 and not 2002.

Back in 2002 there were no extreme 'normal' cars like the CSL.
Competition (Mercedes black series, Audi R8, Nissan GTR) has lifted the baseline.
There are cars today like the Renault R26R (I might have the code wrong) which is a track weapon.
Was there any car with removed sound insulation, AC, radio etc etc ?
And where was BMW today ? NOWHERE.
After so much pressure, they offered as an add-on brembo brakes for 1 and 3 series (for the small engines).
Now they remembered that they can put brembo brakes in M models !!!
We consider this as extreme, when an alfa romeo mito has brembo brakes !!!

[shimmy]

This is no CSL! I am just relieved they didn't devalue CSL brand with this jumble sale tat.

i think that is what BMW thought as well.

TonyR is taking his E92 road car and my guess he will get a better and faster car than the GTS spending less than £20k

[DazBlackCSL]

Nathan,

There goes the 'competitor'. Check this rear wing.




The CSL was the first 'normal' vehicle that had a carbon roof, carbon interior, carbon bumper, carbon intake.
It had many differences over the standard M3.
It was well-thought and engineered to make a difference.
The CSL was a pioneer in extreme 'normal' cars, that's why the press attacked it.

Did we see the GTS in any major car-show ? NO
Why ? Isn't it obvious that they were in a rush ?
It doesn't even have a different front bumper.

I know that many people will love it (maybe they will sell 50 of these) and track it.
But we are forgetting that we are in 2009 and not 2002.

Back in 2002 there were no extreme 'normal' cars like the CSL.
Competition (Mercedes black series, Audi R8, Nissan GTR) has lifted the baseline.
There are cars today like the Renault R26R (I might have the code wrong) which is a track weapon.
Was there any car with removed sound insulation, AC, radio etc etc ?
And where was BMW today ? NOWHERE.
After so much pressure, they offered as an add-on brembo brakes for 1 and 3 series (for the small engines).
Now they remembered that they can put brembo brakes in M models !!!
We consider this as extreme, when an alfa romeo mito has brembo brakes !!!

now that is nice ... agree this is not a CSL equiv ... probably helps us lot TBH as you dont really want a CSL version on every incarnation of the 3 series M as it will devalue the whole CSL brand.

Reckon another 2/3 or more models in the CSL may appear by then ours would be a proper old school legend .. and I will be as bald as a coot :hahaha:

[_Nathan_]

I don't see what difference it makes if it has been in a car show or not, this thing will rape an e46 CSL round a race track whilst being completely under warranty and having a power to weight ratio up there with the GT3RS of this world, the fact that it has a unique engine capacity in the range for homologation purposes makes it more special. Even the 320si has a special feel about it knowing that it is directly linked to the motorsport program, this takes that and multiples it IMO.

The press attacked the e46 csl because it was 20k more than a normal M3, wasn't much faster and had rubbish steering feel and marmite gearbox, there were other cars at the time that were just as hardcore (Impreza Spec C as an example, or GT3RS was around the same time too). Over time the press seemed to do a huge u turn on them as they realised how special they actually were.

Matt - it was £20k more, when a basic M3 was only £39k, I got mine 18 months old with 3.5k miles on it for £40k and I paid a few grand over the odds as I had a Noble to part ex which was a nightmare as no one wanted it.

[windy]

I am not sure that's a 'CSL'.
The brakes, suspension, cage and seats are obvious.
Does it has any special parts like the CSL ? Bumper, trunk etc etc etc ?

Please don't tell me it needs a 'special bumper and boot' to be a CSL? :hahaha:

[_Nathan_]

i think that is what BMW thought as well.

TonyR is taking his E92 road car and my guess he will get a better and faster car than the GTS spending less than £20k

Indeed, spend £5k on dampers, £4k on brakes, £5k on the engine, £5k on the interior and £3k on wheels and tyres and you probably would be faster but you wouldn't have a warranty and it'd be a nightmare to insure. no different to the people that said you could make a normal M3 faster than a CSL for less than the £20k difference

[shimmy]

Indeed, spend £5k on dampers, £4k on brakes, £5k on the engine, £5k on the interior and £3k on wheels and tyres and you probably would be faster but you wouldn't have a warranty and it'd be a nightmare to insure. no different to the people that said you could make a normal M3 faster than a CSL for less than the £20k difference

BUT Nathan we are talking about saving £30k off the £100k and having a car that is better, NOT spending £20k on a car that is still 10% worse

It all hinges on whether BMW have put real TIME AND VALUE into the GTS like they did wiht the CSL or whether they have rushed out an M3 with some easy mods to get their motorsport programme back on track now that they are out of F1

THis does not have the class of the finish of a £100k car imho but it may well go like shit off a shovel. They are two sepoerate things:smokin:

[_Nathan_]

I like the look of it though, guess that is my inner chav coming out :gayfight:

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

I think BMW are starting to become the
Architects of their own down fall.

You can purchase a really nice CSL now for
Circa 25K +/-.

You can also purchase a very low mileage S65
engine complete with ECU etc, for around 3-5k +/-.

5k for Cams, Uprated airbox and exhaust.

A E60 M5 7 speed manual box as fitted to the North American
M5 as an option would be around 3k. [same bolt pattern]

1.5k for the clutch

4 Way Intrax, Drexler rear Diff, and the KK Trick
rear axle and Grp A front arms around 20k all in.

Wheels and uprated bearings etc 3k

Allow 5 k for ECU Upgrade and Dyno

Allow say 15k to fit, sort, test and set it all up.

Allow salvage on parts sold say 5k.

Sub 75k and you would be well in super Car territory
with something around 475/500 BHP that can do
a Ring lap in around 7.10/7.12 and still be able
to drive it on the road.

The BMW E46 V8 ALMS test mules were lapping the
Ring in around 7.10 /7.12 back in 2000/2001.

You can buy a S/H E92 M3 circa 30k today, and
25k spent on that in the right areas would put
a very big smile on a good drivers face.

I believe what this proves is that 75-100k has the ability
to deliver something far above what BMW are offering
for the same money.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[shimmy]

now THIS you would pay £100k for

[Ade]

Did anyone watch the M3's maiden win (over the Porsche RSR) in FIA GT2 (Asian LMS) at Okayama this past weekend? :supz:

It finished the 3 hour race just 1 lap behind the FIA GT1 class winning Lambo!

[_Nathan_]

imagine how it will do with 10% capacity increase.

[TANKSLAPPER]

I don't know where you get the 100,000 k price tag from

The BMW M3 GTS will be made-to-order and the price is expected to be EUR 115,000.- for delivery in Germany, including 19% VAT. (approx. £100,000 at today’s exchange rate, although both the 911 GT3 and M6 Coupe are priced at EUR 116,000 in Germany and subsequently both are priced at around £84,000 in the UK).

I would be very surprised if its is over £85,000 in the UK