Is it wrong to look at these?

[DazBlackCSL]

Dazza, lifestyle consultant. :hahaha:

Gonna look into that Alex :whistle: :-D

[AlexGTT]

Gonna look into that Alex :whistle: :-D

:hahaha:

[northernjim]

No No No Jimbo ... just jump in you will never look back, leave the RS love story behind and keep the photo's .. move on and dip your feet in and you'll never look back.. IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME anyway as you know

we are supportive of your quest and will help you along the way ... also with nights out, sugar women and beer of course :whistle:

:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha::smokin: I might need some serious consultation from some sugar women:beer:

Dazza, lifestyle consultant. :hahaha:

he's got the gift I think

Yes - on both counts. :beer:



+1 ^^^

Get on with it Jim you fekkin

:birdman::smt055:gayfight:

[merell900]

I think it´s the next step.
CSL then GT3(997)
go for it:thumbs:

[Pip1968]

I have already taken the plunge with a 996 GT3 but have kept the CSL to hedge my bets. If I am really taken by it I may well go the whole hog and sell the CSL and upgrade to a GT3 RS. Or if I fall on hard times/ realise it is as everyone keeps telling me, a little impractical to have two 'hobby' cars.

The problem is where do you go after the CSL.... an e90/2 M3..... err, no... Audi RS... possibly.. Aston Martin - running costs :bigcry:

Pip

[Great Pretender]

Well, I've already done the GT3 thing - albeit not of the 997 variety.

This was my old mount:



Had it not been the biggest motoring disaster I've ever owned, I'd probably still have it. And while most will buy without trouble, the dealership/backup experience was the main reason I had such a nightmare. I won't bore you all with the details (and frankly I'm on treacherous ground talking about who and why on a public forum), but if anyone is interested, I'll happily oblige via PM.

Anyway, issues notwithstanding, they are simply outstanding cars and I'd probably struggle to choose a more involving machine at any price point, not just £40-50k.However, there are drawbacks.

For a start, they don't make for very good road cars IMO - even in the 'nancy' Comfort trim (mine was a Clubsport). The factory geo is neither aggressive enough or settled enough and as a result, the car feels nervous on all but the smoothest surfaces, but quickly washes into understeer if you don't use the weight balance to your advantage. This can make the car feel disconcertingly unresponsive until you get used to the notion that the car will really dig in once you scrub through the initial understeer. Once past this, its a devastating device, but with short suspension travel and a very low chin, you are limited as to where you can use all the performance - especially up here in Scotland where so many of the roads are very bumpy and badly surfaced.

On track it's a different story of course. Round Knockhill for instance it will sit up there with the 500+ bhp Evos and R500 Caterhams, but if and only if you have the geometry modified to suit; the upshot being that the car becomes even less road friendly. Swings and roundabouts I guess.

What I found most surprising/disappointing however, was their relative fragility. One would imagine that Porsche's halo product would be built to last, but if used as intended, you'll find that shocks, clutches and diff plates become consumables. Oh and you'll likely only get 2 - 3 trackdays out of a set of front discs before they crack and become unusable. Needless to say, this makes an already hugely expensive car (for me at least) an even more expensive thing to have fun in.

So, just upgrade the brakes/suspension then? Fraid not; not of you want to keep your warranty in tact. Porsche are undoubtedly worst when it comes to honouring warranties at the best of times, but if you so much as fit non N-rated tyres or fit non-Porsche brake pads, you'll find your warranty is less use than toilet paper. I'm not joking either!

Put into context then, the CSL is a very attractive proposition. No it's not as fast, not quite as involving and it doesn't look as special as the Porker, but in all honesty, I'd say a good one offers at least 80% of that served up by the GT3 for 50% of the price. Moreover, the CSL is arguably a better road car and is certainly more 'playful' on track, allowing you to have a bit of fun where the Porsche is almost too grippy. At least that's my thoughts; others will have different views of course. Of course a CSL fitted with decent brakes and suspension will be a very different beast indeed...

The clincher for me however, was the much more relaxed and realistic BMW warranty, which seems to cast a blind eye to track use and will allow modification to the brakes/suspension without voiding the warranty. It's this back-up that really matters to me. Porsche take note.

So in summary, I do miss my GT3 (problems notwithstanding), but I don't miss the draconian warranty - Porsche won't officially allow you to take your rollcage-equipped, fire extinguisher fitted and Cup shod GT3 on track -, fragility and truculent on-road behaviour.

Also, now the GT3 is two generations old, it's roughly four times as common as the CSL :thumbs:

Sorry for the long, rambling post. Just felt some of you might want to hear it from the horses mouth, rather than the Porsche fanboy wankers who'll tell you there is simply no better car on the face of the planet.

[Yanto_csl]

Thx for posting that Simon - interesting perspective :thumbs:

[glendog74]

Thx for posting that Simon - interesting perspective :thumbs:

+1 :thumbs:

[Sailorbaz]

Excellent post Simon.

I've been thinking about the GT3 route for a while, but always cast my mind back to the day my Mate took me out in a 996 (or was it a 997?) C4S. I remember the top end howl it gave, and the way it would go round corners but I also remember the various wanker signs we got, and we weren't even out in it that long. I mean, 5 miles maybe. The looks we were getting from both envious and jealous people was amazing and have never had the likes in 5 years of CSL ownership.

Still loved it though, cracking car.

[TANKSLAPPER]

Good post Simon. :thumbs:

Take note Bounce lol :hahaha::hahaha:

T$

[DazBlackCSL]

very good post I remember thorney telling me to buy a CSL a few years ago, as I was looking at GT3's at the time to replace my M3, so glad I listened and went the CSL route, and this just backs that up :thumbs:

[need4speed]

Excellent post, very informative; thanks for sharing. :smt023

[jibm]

yes very good post, i know i get the calling to the darkside every now and then! finely quenched for now thank you :thumbs:

i was chatting to a friend of a friend the other day who did the CSL to 996GT3 RS jump, he recon's it cost him 4 grand a track day :119::119:

[Great Pretender]

Excellent post Simon.

I've been thinking about the GT3 route for a while, but always cast my mind back to the day my Mate took me out in a 996 (or was it a 997?) C4S. I remember the top end howl it gave, and the way it would go round corners but I also remember the various wanker signs we got, and we weren't even out in it that long. I mean, 5 miles maybe. The looks we were getting from both envious and jealous people was amazing and have never had the likes in 5 years of CSL ownership.

Still loved it though, cracking car.

Ah the howl...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39783697@N05/4445764624/

(please excuse dodgy camerawerk. Vid was taken to capture the sound rather than anything else.)

The noise that thing made at 8200rpm still gives me goosebumps, but equally I could (and frequently do!) listen to recordings of the CSL at full bifter all day. Both sound glorious in their own way.

I can relate to the wanker thing though. Some of the driving I witnessed as people would duck and weave in a desperate attempt to try and get ahead of me in motorway traffic, or the sheer disgust from 'fellow' motorists if I dared make an overtake, was horrific. Generally, most gave the car a favourable reception, but the aggro I got from some for no apparent reason did irk a little. I remember parking the car at Sainsburys once and as I got out, I was approached by an angrly looking little man who shouted something at me from afar, but then when he got closer, he'd apparently forgotten what he wanted to say and instead just called me a c**t! :hahaha: It was easily a car that would one day inevitably get keyed if left unattended for long enough. Curiously though, in something like silver, or grey, they look distinctly average IMO.

The C4S is a brilliant car and probably a far better road car than the GT3. My old man had one in Lapis blue and it was a stunning looking thing. Very quick too, given the modest 316bhp. I still quite fancy the idea of one but the CSL is a better car in every respect, so stick with it I say.

[Great Pretender]

very good post I remember thorney telling me to buy a CSL a few years ago, as I was looking at GT3's at the time to replace my M3, so glad I listened and went the CSL route, and this just backs that up :thumbs:

Well I've not tracked mine enough to say for sure, but judging by some of the posts on here, the CSL seems to hold up to track (ab)use far better, despite concerns over the SMG's fragility.

After I sold it, I discovered that the Porker had led a hard life (mostly on track) and even at 28k miles it was showing signs of wear, that you wouldn't expect given it's remit.