Real world difference between an M3 and a CSL...

[Sailorbaz]

Aye, you need to get a shot of one. I'm sure someone isn't far from you, would be willing to show you just how special the CSL is.

No one's mentioned the steering. My mate has an M3 and everytime is gets a shot of my CSL he comments on A) the seats and driving position before B) the steering and then finally C) the induction ROAR! So different from a standard M3.

Where are you Funtime?

[funtime]

If you like M track, then you drive like a pussy, simple.

:hahaha: a little harsh surly? MonkeyCSL was only yesterday telling me how great M-track was, although this was after he'd finished talking about stroking the duck tail spoiler and installing a glass wall in his living room so he could sit and stroke himself whilst gazing at his CSL :hahaha:

Seriously though, I want M-track as I find the normal DSC to intrusive for normal driving, yet I don't want to turn it off as the one time I don't 'catch the back' and bin it I'd feel uber stupid.

Do you drive with DSC completely off everywhere then Lawsy?

[shimmy]

If you like M track, then you drive like a pussy, simple.

i like M Track:thumbs:

[TANKSLAPPER]

I sold my M3 e46 after 10 months

I have owned CSL's for 7 years and I won't be selling for the next 7

T$

[funtime]

Aye, you need to get a shot of one. I'm sure someone isn't far from you, would be willing to show you just how special the CSL is.

No one's mentioned the steering. My mate has an M3 and everytime is gets a shot of my CSL he comments on A) the seats and driving position before B) the steering and then finally C) the induction ROAR! So different from a standard M3.

Where are you Funtime?

I'm in Crawley unfortunately :hahaha:

Turn in is one of the things the guys at Munich said is so much better than the standard M3 - I know they have a different steering rack, but is alot of the turn in just down to the standard CSL geo settings i.e the negative camber etc?

If you changed the M3 suspension and dialled in the same settings wouldn't this geo and turn-in capability be achievable with very little work?

If anyone is near by that and wouldn't mind having a chat and taking me out in theirs that would be much appreciated though

[shimmy]

I sold my M3 e46 after 10 months

I have owned CSL's for 7 years and I won't be selling for the next 7

T$

are they that old really!

[shimmy]

where is Crawley?

I was at M Legends this morning!

I'm in Crawley unfortunately :hahaha:

Turn in is one of the things the guys at Munich said is so much better than the standard M3 - I know they have a different steering rack, but is alot of the turn in just down to the standard CSL geo settings i.e the negative camber etc?

If you changed the M3 suspension and dialled in the same settings wouldn't this geo and turn-in capability be achievable with very little work?

If anyone is near by that and wouldn't mind having a chat and taking me out in theirs that would be much appreciated though

[shane@mbtech]

i met a guy today for the first time, hes not on the forums and loves his BMWs. He has had 2 CSLs and can see himself getting another one as everything else just aint the same.

Sooo many CSL owners talk of the CSL like it was the best car theyve ever owned even when thye have obviously owned far better ones for sure but some how it seems to just to appeal to a certain type.

Id say drive one and find out. Feck the mrs, buy here a Polo with the saving on depreciation if she dont like it.


However i also have troiuble driving my CSL above 90% of its capabilities as i have to drive it home as well.:smokin:

That explains everything then Shim, besides you have the MX5 now for 100% attack

:hahaha: a little harsh surly? MonkeyCSL was only yesterday telling me how great M-track was, although this was after he'd finished talking about stroking the duck tail spoiler and installing a glass wall in his living room so he could sit and stroke himself whilst gazing at his CSL :hahaha:

Seriously though, I want M-track as I find the normal DSC to intrusive for normal driving, yet I don't want to turn it off as the one time I don't 'catch the back' and bin it I'd feel uber stupid.

Do you drive with DSC completely off everywhere then Lawsy?

Just a joke, but really if you need M track on track then you will not be fast fast IMO.

I did do yes, sadly not a csl owner no more, only time I used M track, was pissing down rain on track and for first few sessions only. Then it was sideways , I really learnt alot about the breakaway points with dsc off, esp in the wet, I then put the lesson learnt to use on dry track, making me faster.

M track will not save a physics defying spin, if you cant catch yourself what M track stops, then yes you will need it.

Some corners a little spin up helps, others not so, but you soon learn which corners they are.

M track is ok, but its a very primative system, compared to ferrari system which can make anyone look like a legend, it is in the ice age.

But if you are slowly learning and new to M3 and rwd then its a good stepping stone.

I was brought up on rwd so I like a bit of arse action, well so the rumours say anyhow:gayfight:

[TANKSLAPPER]

are they that old really!

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

T$

[shimmy]

That explains everything then Shim, besides you have the MX5 now for 100% attack

yer have to drive them feckers at 120%:hahaha:

[shane@mbtech]

I'm in Crawley unfortunately :hahaha:

Turn in is one of the things the guys at Munich said is so much better than the standard M3 - I know they have a different steering rack, but is alot of the turn in just down to the standard CSL geo settings i.e the negative camber etc?

If you changed the M3 suspension and dialled in the same settings wouldn't this geo and turn-in capability be achievable with very little work?

If anyone is near by that and wouldn't mind having a chat and taking me out in theirs that would be much appreciated though

The CSL has a quicker rack, so turn in seems sharper, in terms of feel it is far different, in terms of track time, there will only be the odd corner, chicane where you see a difference in time, not much at all.

A standard CSL, feels similar to a modded M3, a modded CSL, feels better still.

NO they are not the quickest or best car out there, but they are very very very good.

[shane@mbtech]

yer have to drive them feckers at 120%:hahaha:

Am I still on for oulton Shimmy,

Ill get me ards booked if so:thumbs:

[funtime]

where is Crawley?

I was at M Legends this morning!

Just the other side of the M23 to East Grinstead

That explains everything then Shim, besides you have the MX5 now for 100% attack



Just a joke, but really if you need M track on track then you will not be fast fast IMO.

I did do yes, sadly not a csl owner no more, only time I used M track, was pissing down rain on track and for first few sessions only. Then it was sideways , I really learnt alot about the breakaway points with dsc off, esp in the wet, I then put the lesson learnt to use on dry track, making me faster.

M track will not save a physics defying spin, if you cant catch yourself what M track stops, then yes you will need it.

Some corners a little spin up helps, others not so, but you soon learn which corners they are.

M track is ok, but its a very primative system, compared to ferrari system which can make anyone look like a legend, it is in the ice age.

But if you are slowly learning and new to M3 and rwd then its a good stepping stone.

I was brought up on rwd so I like a bit of arse action, well so the rumours say anyhow:gayfight:

That makes me kick myself in some ways, I did a track day at Silverstone in the wet yesterday and left the DSC on for the whole day as it was flashing everywhere and the track was very very slippery...could have learnt alot from it though I guess!

This is my second RWD car now, and the one before was my e36 M3 with no traction, although I just got used to that, but having a fwd in-between has got me out of the steer from the rear habbits

The CSL has a quicker rack, so turn in seems sharper, in terms of feel it is far different, in terms of track time, there will only be the odd corner, chicane where you see a difference in time, not much at all.

A standard CSL, feels similar to a modded M3, a modded CSL, feels better still.

NO they are not the quickest or best car out there, but they are very very very good.

Oh right so it is just the rack then... well the CSL they have coming in soon has KW V3's and AP's all round so it's sounding like it'll be very hard to resist... :whistle:

[toofastforyou]

i remember when the csl was released and so many people sold them back to the dealer cos they couldnt see what all the fuss was about. until of course people realised that comparing the two is like comparing chalk and cheese.

i have been driving the e46 chassis for 10 years. i have owned 5 e46 m3s, 2 at the same time! i had the coupe first, then the vert, and then a csl with the vert.

i tuned both the coupe and the vert with: tein edfc suspension (i know but it was back in the day!), gruppe m ram air and ti exhaust, supersprint x pipe, dms remap, rear differential 3.9:1, rogue pulleys, front and rear ac shnitzer strut braces (vert doesnt fit rear strut brace) and both with 100 shot of nos. the coupe i sold to my cousin so it was always close by. the first csl i got i put tein edfc suspension, gruppe m ti exhaust, supersprint x pipe, front and rear strut brace, rear differential 3.9:1 and dms remap. no nos.

the vert could keep up with the coupe no problem except when taking bends at 120mph+. in fact 0-40mph the vert was the fastest out of all of them as it is heavier and could get the power down better.

the coupe kept up with the csl but not easily, and eventually the csl would lose the coupe. there is a reason why a stock csl is 32secs quicker round the ring than a stock e46 m3 coupe, and only 2 secs slower than the e92 m3 gts (all 3 cars driven by the same driver horst von saurma before any of you start going on about them not being driven by drivers of equal talent).
its not just the steering rack or the extra power or the suspension or the weight loss- its the whole package. all the mods work in perfect harmony to provide the driver with one of the most enthralling, connected driving experiences around.

yes you can tune a coupe to be as fast or even faster than a csl, but do the same to a csl and the tuned coupe wont see which way you went in the csl. the money you will spend to make the coupe equal to a stock csl, you might as well buy a csl. even then it still wont be as good as the csl has been modified by bmw to be very special, if you think you can do a better job with the coupe, by all means try. the saying so close yet so far springs to mind.

[toofastforyou]

and regarding the dsc, always have it switched off. just be careful, respect the car, learn the limits in that way and you will soon master the m3. i had my lambda sensor go and the dash lit up like a christmas tree, i had no abs and zero traction (even when you turn the traction off it is still working ever so slightly)- i didnt fix it for 18 months.