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Noble M12 GT0-3R vs CSL

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    #16
    I'd be very surprised if the CSL was slower, despite having something like 220 bhp / ton less which brings me back to my previous point about them not actually being that quick round a lap in the hands of most people. I think that having that much torque on hand when the turbos spool up makes them very difficult to get on the power early enough coming out of a corner to make the most of the chassis.

    The chassis is great (if a bit agricultural) but I imagine in most peoples hands (certainly mine) they'd be miles faster round a lap and more reliable if it were fitted with a decent NA engine, like an s54 or GT3 engine or even a 300bhp NA version of the V6 in there.

    I was instantly quicker round a lap in the CSL, within a week of ownership I'd done 2 trackdays back to back on a bank holiday friday and monday, would've never done that in the Noble due to the TLC required, was quicker in the CSL straight away too, partly through the layout being more forgiving of a rubbish driver, partly through the NA engine being easier to use on track and partly through not worrying about it breaking.

    They are basically a pre made kit car and if you go in to ownership knowing that I expect you'll love it, it was sold to me as a completely sorted low volume production car and it is safe to say I had more niggles than I was expecting based upon the sales patter. Of the first 12 months I owed it the car was back at the factory for 5 months. It took 3 days of ownership before the car broke to the point where it couldn't be driven and was collected by the factory...

    Having to pay to fix a dangerous design flaw which would result in a throttle stuck wide open was a nice touch too when you'd spend over £50k.



    For a B road blast or few laps of a circuit they are brilliant, as an ownership proposition not for me and I am still in contact with others who have moved on to properly built cars that think the same.

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      #17
      Originally posted by shimmy View Post
      EFA :smokin:



      I'd be really interested to see how you get on with the CSL at Snett 300. I've always had a hankering after a Noble, but always thought it would be a real handful:supz:

      510bhp, but what's the weight?
      Just around 1100 with, until I get in :smt118
      Nobles are great if you are preppared to get involved with preventitive maintenence, you really have to if your going to track one regular.
      It's not the type of car for someone with no mechanical knowledge who's only ever going to use a garage for any work needed.

      This is the big difference between them and a beemer.

      It's surprising though peoples reactions when you first plant the throttle, the resounding result on most people is to just laugh :thumbs:
      The standard 3R 0 - 60 was published at 3.7 but Road and track tested it at 3.3 and thats with 340 ish brake. Not sure the box could stand too much of that though.

      Looking forward to really getting to grips with the Csl and seeing how it compares but I'm sure already that with me driving the two cars all that extra power of the Noble isn't going to make a lot of difference on track because of the confidence with the Csl.

      I already believe that on one of our lovely Norfolk 'B' roads I will be quicker in the Csl as it's not trying so hard to spit me in the hedge.

      Matty.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Funkster View Post
        Just around 1100 with, until I get in :smt118
        Nobles are great if you are preppared to get involved with preventitive maintenence, you really have to if your going to track one regular.
        It's not the type of car for someone with no mechanical knowledge who's only ever going to use a garage for any work needed.

        This is the big difference between them and a beemer.

        It's surprising though peoples reactions when you first plant the throttle, the resounding result on most people is to just laugh :thumbs:
        The standard 3R 0 - 60 was published at 3.7 but Road and track tested it at 3.3 and thats with 340 ish brake. Not sure the box could stand too much of that though.

        Looking forward to really getting to grips with the Csl and seeing how it compares but I'm sure already that with me driving the two cars all that extra power of the Noble isn't going to make a lot of difference on track because of the confidence with the Csl.

        I already believe that on one of our lovely Norfolk 'B' roads I will be quicker in the Csl as it's not trying so hard to spit me in the hedge.

        Matty.
        Matty, one day I'll sit in one a feel the bhp! What price do they go for stock second hand?

        I think at Snett you'll soon find a mere 360bhp and 1500kg rewarding, and you shouldnt have too many problems bettering the 2m15s in the Noble I think. (by some margin) which I find very strange bearing in mind you are talking about a car with DOUBLE the power to weight ratio

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          #19
          i've had 2 nobles, a gto3 with open diff, trackday sump and grooved aps up front. tracked it lots, never really let me down but always had big bills to pay for the upkeep. quick car.

          then had a track prep'd m400, standard engine wise so probably about 400bhp, grooved aps all round, singleway adj nitrons along with some other bits. did loads of trackdays in that. cost a fookin fortune in upkeep. let me down and had to get recovered 3 times in 3 yrs.
          1. engine blew due to some previous owner not topping up oil. cost - £10k
          2. alternator belt shredded when turned on aircon and couldn't source one. cost - £15.50
          3. clutch went at end of croft trackday after leaving car unused for a few months which they dont like. cost - £2k

          that was the main reason i went for csl - so i could do trackdays and not have to worry too much about it breaking. saying that mine has had a misfire and been pinking recently and a compression test shows values down on 4 and 5 so headgasket is the main suspect at the minute. done 54k miles.

          m400 was easy to drive quickly in my opinion, always found it very planted, predictable and could balance it beautifully on the throttle. it was faster than i am at the minute in the csl but still learning to drive the car on track properly, not done enough trackdays in it yet. tuition is planned next time out. loved the car, would probably do it again as so much fun, but csl definitely is awesome :supz:

          having known/spoken to quite a few owners (matty included ) some people have only driven them on the road and had a nightmare time with breakdowns, some have tracked them plenty and had minimal probs. think that inconsistency goes with a low volume sports car like the noble.

          hth

          conleth

          for old times sake



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            #20
            I am capable of doing work on one myself - having no warranty and the potential for a massive outlay is off putting though - nice to have the BMW warranty for piece of mind...as long as they pay out!

            I would have expected them to be miles quicker around a track than a CSL and I thought they would be easy to drive near the limit as everyone praises what a good handling and sorted car they are!

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              #21
              Originally posted by Funkster View Post
              Hi shim
              The Noble was a 2.15 but as already said, I'm sure there's a lot more in the car with someone than can pedal it a tad better.

              ?
              Originally posted by DIB17 View Post
              I would have expected them to be miles quicker around a track than a CSL and I thought they would be easy to drive near the limit as everyone praises what a good handling and sorted car they are!
              when they are out there running i always expected them to come tearing past me but never do. i think it must be the difficulty in gettng power down etc making them hard to drive.

              Well see what Funkster thinks when he gets out on a good comparison drive but the CSLs first time out on Snett 300 last March were doing 2m 10 to 2m 17 depending on which one you were in so already looking better.

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                #22
                So 5 seconds a lap faster with more of less half the power to weight on a circuit that has 2 massive straights with acceleration from low speed which would favour the Noble...

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by _Nathan_ View Post
                  So 5 seconds a lap faster with more of less half the power to weight on a circuit that has 2 massive straights with acceleration from low speed which would favour the Noble...
                  The noble time was on trackday and I must say that I'm rather courteus to other drivers and I'm sure there is still plenty left but probably no from me.

                  The 328i track car anyhow was a 2.21 during a race and deffo with no mechanical sympathy.

                  Round the old Corram I would quite happily be in a 4 wheel drift about 90mph lap after lap but would never imagine doing that in the Noble.

                  As I've said there is a lot more in the car than I can achieve but I put this more down to my comfort and possibly the front engined rear drive of a beemer suiting my style.
                  When I'm on it I much prefer the upright close to the wheel type of position so I can use my upper body to feel whats feeding back through and make adjustments to suit...... Im just laying down in the Noble with arms at full stretch with no feel at all.

                  Well I can't help being a freak of nature and so long in the body.....( and chopper ):smokin: Bubble in the roof me thinks.:whistle:

                  Matty.

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                    #24
                    At 6'7 I know your pain with the Noble, seat custion removed, rails repositioned, steering spacer.

                    Shimmys 2:10 in his csl was on a track day too, that is what I was comparing the 2:15 Noble time too.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by _Nathan_ View Post
                      At 6'7 I know your pain with the Noble, seat custion removed, rails repositioned, steering spacer.
                      If it's unreliable cars that tall people can fit in, then it's gotta be TVR. As far as I rem Peter Wheeler was somewhere around 6'8, as am I, and they're a seriously comfortable place to sit

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by LeinsCSL View Post
                        If it's unreliable cars that tall people can fit in, then it's gotta be TVR. As far as I rem Peter Wheeler was somewhere around 6'8, as am I, and they're a seriously comfortable place to sit

                        True, if I'm gonna get an unreliable car I guess a comfy one should be the choice at east then you can sit in luxury whilst waiting for ADAC

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by LeinsCSL View Post
                          If it's unreliable cars that tall people can fit in, then it's gotta be TVR. As far as I rem Peter Wheeler was somewhere around 6'8, as am I, and they're a seriously comfortable place to sit
                          I had one of them, it was wank, Noble was miles better :gayfight:

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