It had to happen.....

[DuncanR]

Agree........ Bit lighter and Intrax.

Thats gone to fook since I bought it !!:blalalala:

[SteveGill]

You mean like we didnt on that lap I was driving Jim !! :hahaha:.

Andrew has genuinely always said that he regularly got a 7:40 BTG out of the Broom, and Steve Gill would probably back that up as he used to drive with him a bit , didnt you Steve ?? Steve??. A few weeks ago down at the Ring DN day, I took Andrew out in the Broom for old times sake and asked him about the 7:40 lap, he admitted that to achieve it, was .. "a bit scary", which sort of tells me that The Broom, even with its mods, (engine stock) is probably at its limit at about that time. The reason that Andy took the decision to cage his/my car, was self preservation, he could see himself getting faster, (he was doing quite a few laps a year) and took the very sensible decision to fit a cage. I for one think his claim of a 7:40 BTG is genuine.

I only ever got high 7.50s in my white CSL on any lap that was timed, and I'm not convinced any of my other laps were any faster.

I know for a fact that when you get sub 8 minutes, every second gained is a lot harder to find (sounds obvious, but what I'm saying is gaining 10 seconds from 9 minutes to 8.50 is a lot easier than 8 minutes to 7.50).

I gave up timing laps after videoing loads and never improving on 7.5x on Cups. There are lots of faster CSL drivers than me, but I'm pretty sure that the laps Andy and I did together were high 7.50s at best. I'd love to think they were 7.40s, but realistically I think no chance. Andy may well have gone 15+ seconds faster when driving on his own, but we were reasonably similar in pace (andy being slightly faster) so I'm struggling to see where those 15 seconds would be made up.

I have little faith in the performance boxes now, having worked with them for ages at the ring. Most of my traces had something wrong with them - one time I compared laps with Andy, Gaute and myself in the PK one evening - we discovered I was 20km/h faster than both of them through the last corner on the ring - I can assure you I wasn't :hahaha:

Video footage is best, but even in that I've had some skips forward gaining a few seconds. The only reliable method IMHO is transponders with the sensor on the pit wall - we used that when I raced RCN with my grey CSL at the ring. I was high 7.50s in that car full lap, but that was on slicks (and the new car is night and day better than the white one.

I'm sure I can go faster, I need bigger balls - but there does come a stage when you say to yourself there is more to life than just times - all it does is give you an ego boost if its better than your mates, or has you chasing a goal that could have you pushing beyond limits and crashing. In the RCN race I came full throttle through the left hander just before Bergwerk, and someone had lost oil. I *almost* binned the car, and I reckon it was 100% the combination of andy walsh days and papenburg drifting that meant I saved the car (I was ready to slide it along the barrier to minimise damage, thankfully kept it on the black stuff). The next lap I came round and my main competitor in class (another CSL) had binned it at the same point and major damage to his car, he was out of the race.

Saving the car from crashing was 100 times more satisfying to me personally than chasing a laptime. Other examples are the time I had brand new cups fitted at tom's workshop in Kelberg where the sun was shining, went out on the ring and it was pissing down just before T13. That lap turned into a drifting lap, and having the confidence to drift the ring again was way more satisfying.

Do what Mark S and I did at a french trackday, forget the laptimes and just have a laugh :thumbs:

[Sailorbaz]

Not thread related but STEVE, Where have you been? Hello!!!

[SteveGill]

Not thread related but STEVE, Where have you been? Hello!!!

Hey Baz!

I'm in Malta now - still got the racecar in Germany, but I've sold the X6 and e92 m3 - so now all I can do is drift around Malta in my 320d :thumbs:

Maybe back next year or 2013 racing again - we'll see what the finances allow, still paying off the cost of the CSL Cup :hahaha:

[AlexGTT]

Great to hear from you Steve. I can see where your coming from. Funnily enough, just been properly sorting out my vbox data and video from Dest Nurb this year and I concur with your thoughts.

I have pretty much got as quick as I want to go at Ring and that's pretty much 8min flat BtoG laps with the odd clear high 7.50 thrown in. My absolute best is 7.58 and I'm more than happy with that and having an intact CSL. I finally calculated my full lap times from Dest Nurb (we had to travel slow through the old pit because of GP stand going up at T20). That was 8.35 full lap with a yellow section for oil and some traffic.

Like you said, there are plenty of guys going easy 8-10 seconds faster but I'm really not prepared to go there and if I feel the day (I'm talking TF days here) going a bit crazy, I'm quite happy walking/talking the carpark and settling down for beers in the evening.

I'm still trying to work out how to get my vids up. :whistle:As soon as I do I'll post those laps for interest.

[DuncanR]

Good to hear from you Steve, maybe Andrews 7:40 was a one off one with nooooooo witnesses !! .. :hahaha: .. it matters not , as you are both quick around there, and sage advice for anyone thinking that anything any quicker than about 7:50 ish is within easy reach of some of the CSL's on here that regularly do the Ring. Like Alex, I would be more than happy with anything near 8 mins, but even happier to keep taking the Broom home in one piece ...well sort of !
I would imagine the temp in Malta is just nice at the minute ! loved Gozo when I was out there.

[shane@mbtech]

Good to hear from you Steve, maybe Andrews 7:40 was a one off one with nooooooo witnesses !! .. :hahaha: .. it matters not , as you are both quick around there, and sage advice for anyone thinking that anything any quicker than about 7:50 ish is within easy reach of some of the CSL's on here that regularly do the Ring. Like Alex, I would be more than happy with anything near 8 mins, but even happier to keep taking the Broom home in one piece ...well sort of !
I would imagine the temp in Malta is just nice at the minute ! loved Gozo when I was out there.

The laps you followed me where pretty quick Dunc, approx 8.15 iirc, they where also very nice and stable with no heroics from either of us.
I reckon a sub 8 mins is comfortable pace, but dropping below 7.50 might be too risky, for what is fundamentally no prize apart from what Ste and Dunc say- bragging rights.

[titan]

An interesting thread to revive, a good read on a sunday.

The holy grail of sub 8 mins at the 'ring is a corker.

I've been in cars with talented drivers and witnessed some overtakes where quite frankly - if the other guy was unpredictable - thats going to be the end. In fact, heh, the evo ended up in the armco at the 'ring because of an unpredictable guy on an overtake.

My bro stole the keys to the CSL and banged out an 8:05. That was pretty fair. The fastest I ever went around in the evo was 7:45. Due to the speed differentials I reckon I've had the GT2RS round in 7:30 or less.

Seems to me that you either need to be right on the edge, or you just bring something mental and do it "in ease".

To give you an idea, the GT2RS was a few MPH short of 200 as we approached the bridge, was getting up to 170 before SX (no doubt could do more if a bigger set of balls were taken earlier on) and I had to come off the gas going up the big hill kesselchen because at 160 I was worried about bouncing off the track.

whats far more impressive is that vergers only gets about 110 up the big hill so think how much time is made up on the corners.

I've resigned myself to the fact that with 2 maybe 3 at most trips per year its now just an enjoyable social trip with a bit of track action. God only knows what the GT2 is capable of in the right hands, but I'm not sure I'd even want to be a passenger.

good luck to shim/lawsy if they want to get to 7:50's and less. You'll need to bend some cars along the way I suspect.

[shimmy]

Where did you get to at Oulton?:supz:

[magnust]

I've just read through the whole thread, nice reading, a lot of good thoughts. I've been to the ring a couple of times in my old car, a -96 M3, but haven't been there yet with the CSL. The problem is that I in no way can afford a "proper" accident at the Ring in the CSL. If I'd binned the cheaper -96 I'd managed. But then again, I really really really want to go, the Ring is in my mind the home of the CSL. It's where it belongs more than anywhere else. And I'm sooooo wanting to try out what the CSL will be like compared to the M3 3.2.



A fun surprise seeing this link below too :thumbs: Not only because it's extremely interesting set of data to compare and analyse to your own runs. :beer:

Some interesting data here. Three CSL's, MKI and MKII 996 GT3, Z3M Coupe.

http://www.northloop.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?16016-GPS-Speed-map-of-the-Ring&highlight=TIMES

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Not sure if this is for real.

If it is, and the Car is as Claimed
then hats off, but I have never
heard a std E46 M3 that sounds
like that on the Rev Drop.

More so how the engine seems to
stay right in the Rev Band on the
up-shifts.

Christ 4th-5th in a CSL at Full chat with
a 3.91 Diff and the rev drops per gear
change are greater than in the vid.

Maybe I just got the Green eye at
the 7.35 time !!!

Regards,

The Gorilla.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXKrqi46JC4&feature=related

[E46CSL]

Good stuff. 240 kmh at Schewedenkreuz. Carried amazing speed into corners.

They may be doubts if this is real, but i have been a passenger with drivers who drive as well as that.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Quote- '' but i have been a passenger with drivers who drive as well as that.''

For sure there are some very quick drivers
about, but no matter how quick you are
you can not alter the Rev drop on a std
E46 M3 Gearbox.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[shane@mbtech]

Hi,

Quote- '' but i have been a passenger with drivers who drive as well as that.''

For sure there are some very quick drivers
about, but no matter how quick you are
you can not alter the Rev drop on a std
E46 M3 Gearbox.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

mes
Maybe the vid was sped up v slightly and thats why it seems to drop off quick and short.

He was baulked up v slightly a few times too, so under 7.30.

Did you not think the marshals waving the flags were waving very quickly:whistle:

[s.mac]

it doesn't look right to me :whistle: