~400bhp CSLs?

[breeze]

I got my geo done at Thorney a little over a month ago and whilst I was there I had a brief conversation about engine tuning with John Thorne. We talked about what could be done to up the power of a a CSL without changing the displacement and it got me thinking.

How many CSLs are out there with the manifold to back box, Schrick, management etc all done and what are they making?

I'm sure between Evolve/Simpson/Thorney and the like we must have a few cars kicking out some decent numbers...

[shimmy]

I'll give you all the baked beans in our cupboards if you can beat 380bhp with out motek or internal block changes.

[Yanto_csl]

Get onto cutters.

I think SpecialKev is running c.450bhp.

Not sure if he's dyno'd it.....take a look at his posts.

To be honest, I'm not convinced....he sounds like a guy going through a mid life crises imo....

[Bounce]

I'll give you all the baked beans in our cupboards if you can beat 380bhp with out motek or internal block changes.

if he eats all the beans in your cupboards,it may give him a bit more bhp:whistle:

[alexk]

How many CSLs are out there with the manifold to back box, Schrick, management etc all done and what are they making?

I'm sure between Evolve/Simpson/Thorney and the like we must have a few cars kicking out some decent numbers...

I am sure they do mate :-D

[AlexGTT]

As Shimmy said, without am ECU like Motech and a shit load on internal work anyone claiming 400bhp or anywhere near is simply talking bollocks!

Save your money. There's better ways to find speed.

[ando]

I've just had shrick cams fitted and a remap by Tom Schrimer racing near the ring and I have a print out (in the car unfortunately at the ring) and that made 391.6 PS not sure what that is in BHP and 377nm torque again not sure what that is in lbft.

I'll upload the Dyno printout when I bring the car back next month if you like.

The car is standard apart from Miltek cats, think they are 100 cell. Tom said that was the most he's ever had out of a CSL with those cams, last one did 386ps.

Ando.

[shimmy]

395 ps is 400bhp :whistle:

[83SY]

I would leave it well alone and improve driving! 400bhp+ sounds unreliable :bigcry:

[ando]

395 ps is 400bhp :whistle:

What time do you want me to come get my beans then?? lol

I googled it and thought it was less, it said something like ps is 98%ish bhp.

[shimmy]

What time do you want me to come get my beans then?? lol

I googled it and thought it was less, it said something like ps is 98%ish bhp.

Just counted, got 4 times in the cupboard and half a tin of cold beans in the fridge.

Luckily for you my Costco saver tray has been all used up.

[shimmy]

Just checked and you are right385ps is around 379.7bhp

I think flow had similar figures but with SS headers.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

I always find the alleged power numbers
for S54's to be highly amusing.

The S54 is an under square engine so
its not akin to revs, suffers from
internal resonance, and fitting higher
lift cams to the std engine CR does not
do much more than decreaase the existing
powerband.

Its why in part the CSL S54 cams are of
longer duration than stock.

BMW who for those who forget, with all their
Data gained from its design, development
and evolution called it day when they hit
the wall at around 415 BHP.

That was the M3 P54 with internals etc that are not
only hours in use limited but were changed much more
frequently when Racing due to the massive internal
resonance the ''tuned'' engine creates.

M3 P54 is something like 60/70k for short engine
given the component internals.

Thus you have a undersquare engine with
increasing hamonic issues verging on the
very max of internal component limits.

Anybody that believes that this type of engine
makes another 20-30 or even 40 BHP by some
higher lift Cams, a reflash on the std Mapping
and improved Exhaust flow is easily pleased.

Good engine tuner will Dyno Car before and after
all and any works, doing 2 runs each time,
one hot and one cold.
This will produce a good estimate of what the
engine is producing.

In fact the std MS S54 CSL DME I would wager
is more powerful than any Motec or Pectel
unit available.

That aside, ECU does not gain any real power in its own
right, but given that so many factory DME's are encrypted
then unlocking them to locate the adressess
and rewrite them is why many resort to stand alone.

Plus you have Intellectual Property right issues.

You can alter/expand many of the factory settings, like
maximise fuelling, optimise the Vanos if retained,
delete the EWS, DBW and so on, but entering new paramiters
overall, is where the fun starts.

S54 is a remarkable engine in that its a undersquare
engine that does pull 8000 rpm and some, but
its not akin to bolt on tuning components for making any real
significant power gains.

Its got TO have good precise internal surgery and thus not only
does it require a good 'surgery' team, they need to
be fitting well made matched parts to maximise any gains.

Fact is, any Tuning Company will tell you what
they think you want to hear as they are taking
your money.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[DuncanR]

1 horsepower (hp) = 1.0139 pferdestarke (ps) :thumbs:

So Ando , from 390 PS you POSSIBLY have 386 HP ...maybe ....

[ando]

1 horsepower (hp) = 1.0139 pferdestarke (ps) :thumbs:

So Ando , from 390 PS you POSSIBLY have 386 HP ...maybe ....

Hey Dunc,

Yep that's what I thought, I don't really give too much of a toss what its made tbh, I didn't have them changed to go trying to get massive increases in power, one cam was worn out, my fault I guess. But the shrick cams were a nice alternative to standard ones.

Does the car feel quicker with them in and the claimed increases?

Well its hard to tell when driving it, it feels like it wants to spin up more in second than it did before, or was that the cups not up to temp?

On the ring the car feels better, pulls more up the hill or so the speedo tells me and I'm having to let off in places I was flat, and also getting in to higher gears in places I wasn't before and also changing up gears earlier than before.

Can't give you a time as (i'll upload the videos from the last trip) loads of crashes all weekend and lots of traffic so didn't really get any quick full laps in only sections really.

So overall pleased with the apparent gains,

Was it worth the money??
Not on your nelly, if the old cams hadn't wore out I wouldn't have touched it.

As an aside, how many of you guys really only use your car on track compared to road driving, as my cams went because I didn;t do the clearances often enough, or so I was told by a specialist, they need to be checked every year.

cheers

Ando