So who has the most highly modified CSL?

[SamT]

Hi Mike

I know that this is not really what your asking, but for my 2 penniworth.....I went down the modifying a standard M3 route to get my track car, and now have an M3 that weighs in at around 1350KG (.33 in the tank) allegedly has the magical 400bhp NA, Nitron R3 Schirmer suspension, Alcon CSL cup brakes with them stupidly expensive PF pads, Drexler plated diff, Solid Schirmer bushes, etc, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah...........Yes, she is pretty handy on the track , but fecking horrible to drive there.......and to be totally honest, from what i've experienced from dicking about on track with the CSL boys, me having a few (supposed) extra BHP makes no sodding difference whatsoever.....FACT.....and you aint gonna get bored driving one.....EVER!

Like you, (and for similar reasons) i'm now thinking of getting a CSL, and will be carrying out the minimum of Mods.... Brakes, exhaust, Pooky suspension .....But that will be it!....It will be a joy to drive to the Ring, and a joy to go round it!!......a CSL is a pretty unique thing to begin with, and I seriously believe you've got to be mental to go beyond the generally accepted bounds of modifying one.......but each to their own i suppose.

Good luck though mate........love the Escort!!!

ATB
Sam

[Mike RT4]

Hi Mike

I know that this is not really what your asking, but for my 2 penniworth.....I went down the modifying a standard M3 route to get my track car, and now have an M3 that weighs in at around 1350KG (.33 in the tank) allegedly has the magical 400bhp NA, Nitron R3 Schirmer suspension, Alcon CSL cup brakes with them stupidly expensive PF pads, Drexler plated diff, Solid Schirmer bushes, etc, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah...........Yes, she is pretty handy on the track , but fecking horrible to drive there.......and to be totally honest, from what i've experienced from dicking about on track with the CSL boys, me having a few (supposed) extra BHP makes no sodding difference whatsoever.....FACT.....and you aint gonna get bored driving one.....EVER!

Like you, (and for similar reasons) i'm now thinking of getting a CSL, and will be carrying out the minimum of Mods.... Brakes, exhaust, Pooky suspension .....But that will be it!....It will be a joy to drive to the Ring, and a joy to go round it!!......a CSL is a pretty unique thing to begin with, and I seriously believe you've got to be mental to go beyond the generally accepted bounds of modifying one.......but each to their own i suppose.

Good luck though mate........love the Escort!!!

ATB
Sam

Hi Sam,
Actually, you've pretty much come to the same conclusion as I have (just with a different track car). Like your M3, my Escort is too focused to enjoy driving on long journeys to the 'Ring and back (I'm not getting any younger LOL). The CSL is going to replace the Escort for that aspect of things, where the Escort will still be used for UK track days .

[SamT]

Hi Sam,
Actually, you've pretty much come to the same conclusion as I have (just with a different track car). Like your M3, my Escort is too focused to enjoy driving on long journeys to the 'Ring and back (I'm not getting any younger LOL). The CSL is going to replace the Escort for that aspect of things, where the Escort will still be used for UK track days .

That's what i thought Mike, and as i've thrown a load of cash at eeking out a few more HP from the S54 thought i would try and persuade you not to bother ...... although, the main difference i've noticed from doing the engine mods is that she certainly picks up rev's faster (not motorbike quick, but much improved), but a downside is that she hates being held around the 3k-3.5k range (flat as)...which unfortunately is pottering about town and motorway cruising speeds......so a right pain on the road..........obviously everyone is different, but i just cant see how you would get bored in a standard CSL, and don't forget you are going from 4WD back to just RWD, so she's alot more fun anyway.....if you get my drift :hahaha:

If you want to see it i've got a PDF of the graphs from the Dyno, pm me your email and i'll send em over.

ATB
Sam

[Mike RT4]

I have an E90 M3 as well, so love a bit of power oversteer .

PM sent :thumbs:.

[_Nathan_]

e90 is a proper hooligan, great for skids.

[Curly]

I remembered this video earlier.

380bhp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEoJT...ature=youtu.be

Great vid Nathan

[alexk]

allegedly has the magical 400bhp NA

Hi Sam.
Can you share what you have done to achieve the 400bhp ?

[SamT]

Hi Sam.
Can you share what you have done to achieve the 400bhp ?

Hi Alex.....It's all Witchcraft to me mate .....seriously, i can and will go into details, but not just yet, bit of a legal issue pending so i've been advised not to go into any of it on open forums at the moment...sorry.....all i can say is that there was nothing that i thought was out of the ordinary....starting off with a very good standard engine (in terms of cylinder wear etc) is a must, then obviously replicating where possible the CSL version, bit of reciprocating mass reduction , and some exhaust trickery and then a damn good mapping......simples innit :thumbs:

btw, the only reason I'm saying allegedly is that i have a healthy dose of cynicism on dyno testing.... I'm not saying it doesn't have it, just I've not had it verified by anyone totally independent yet.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Quote- '' btw, the only reason I'm saying allegedly is that i have a healthy dose of cynicism on dyno testing..''



Made me chuckle.

Fearrari, Porsche et al, there all at it.

Go dyno a 458 or GT2 on a fully calibrated
independent Dyno operated without
all the Trickery, and you'll be demanding a refund for
all the missing ponies !!

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Mike RT4]

Hi,

Quote- '' btw, the only reason I'm saying allegedly is that i have a healthy dose of cynicism on dyno testing..''



Made me chuckle.

Fearrari, Porsche et al, there all at it.

Go dyno a 458 or GT2 on a fully calibrated
independent Dyno operated without
all the Trickery, and you'll be demanding a refund for
all the missing ponies !!

Regards,

The Gorilla.

That's why I have all my engines mapped in the controlled environment of an engine dyno cell.

It's the only way you can get repeatability, along with being able to hold the engine at full load at any rpm increment to check if any improvements have been made.

Also the problem with lots of modern day cars is that they go into limp mode if the ECU detects that the front wheels have any large speed disparity between the rear ones (adversely affecting power figures). And there are very few rolling roads in this country that have a linked system that drives the rollers to make the front wheels rotate at the same speed.

If you're going to use a rolling road, it's best to get friendly with an independent one and stick with using the same place / operator all the time. Otherwise you'll just get conflicting figures from different rolling roads anyway LOL.

[alexk]

That's why I have all my engines mapped in the controlled environment of an engine dyno cell.

It's the only way you can get repeatability, along with being able to hold the engine at full load at any rpm increment to check if any improvements have been made.

Also the problem with lots of modern day cars is that they go into limp mode if the ECU detects that the front wheels have any large speed disparity between the rear ones (adversely affecting power figures). And there are very few rolling roads in this country that have a linked system that drives the rollers to make the front wheels rotate at the same speed.

If you're going to use a rolling road, it's best to get friendly with an independent one and stick with using the same place / operator all the time. Otherwise you'll just get conflicting figures from different rolling roads anyway LOL.

I guess you don't know M3 E46 + CSL have dyno mode in the ECU so as you can dyno the car on a rolling road dyno.

[shane@mbtech]

I guess you don't know M3 E46 + CSL have dyno mode in the ECU so as you can dyno the car on a rolling road dyno.

Engine dyno is a completely different thing to a rolling road.

[alexk]

Engine dyno is a completely different thing to a rolling road.

I know :thumbs:

[ando]

Hi Mike

You probably don't remember me, I brought some bits off you about 7 years ago for my Cossie'd Xr4i. Suspension and Shims for the rear beam. Chatted to you at the ring about the lads I was with in there CSL's, only saw you on track once that weekend, you were on the side waiting to get towed. lol drive shaft I think?

Anyway, I have gone down the Shrick Cams, Live Map, Standard back box, race cats, as well as ap's, intax, half cage etc. the work was done by a very repected german tuner at the ring with a lot of csl tuning and m3 experience. anyway on the dyno print out he gave me it made 387bhp.

I have just this week ran in a new standard engine, as he put the cams in a none standard position and ended up burning out the solenoids and the piston hit the vavles, among other school boy error the old engine was pretty much scrap.

The way this new motor feels, total seal piston rings, multi layer head gasket. I would say its just as quick after spending the day on track at siverstone today.

I honestly wouldn't bother to much, but if you want to speak to someone who has a 415bhp engine, ring Will at Geoff Steele Racing, he'll build you one. Top Bloke, along with him and Mr Vanos my cars not being touched by anyone else.

Good to see you Escos is still going strong, hopefully see you on track in you CSl this year.

Cheers


Ando

[Mike RT4]

Hi Ando,
I remember the woes I was having that year with standard drive shafts, which kept popping out of the CV joints due to the camber we were trying to achieve on the adjustable TCAs. Took some custom GKN drive shafts and some adjustable top mounts in the end before it was finally sorted.

Sounds like you have a really well sorted Cecil, although if you can't trust a top German tuner to get it right, who can you trust LOL.

The more I'm reading, the more I'm being inclined to leave the engine well alone other than for basic optimisation mods.

I'll certainly be going to Germany with the CSL, so perhaps we can meet up again and talk BMWs this time .