So who has the most highly modified CSL?

[alexk]

Definitely Ohlins in that Pic Alex from what I can see.

Hi mate.
Yes they are ohlins monotube inverted, therefore the external reservoir :beer:

[shimmy]

Mike

Bugger me, if you get a CSL you are goin to have NOTHING to do all weekend but drive it. You will have to change your whole outlook on life and cars.

It will be interesting what conclusion you come to....ie if you just get board or luv it.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Your power numbers are interesting but
do you have any comparission with a
Higher Air temp ?

What is your increase in Oiling for
the Bearings in that Turbo, [T4] as no
matter how large your charge cooling
or any amount of water or meth!!
injection keeping that thing in
check when it Glows Bright red it
will deform all that nice Carbon bling
in no time.

Do you run revearse pattern Cams ?

All said and done, I have no doubt that
you have invested a lot of time, money
and at times frustration, but in truth I
believe that with say 375 BHP and a
properly sorted chassis you would lap
just as quick if not quicker.

Having the ability to dial in large amounts
of toe, camber castor and so on will never
make it turn in correctly, or roll in and out
progressively.
Looking at the film footage it looks great
fun, but it snatches and wants to
push when not really being pushed,
certainly not the quickest way around the
black stuff, even if does pump out
over 500 BHP.

Better traction would be much kinder
to your tyres and then you could
spend less time in the Pits !!

Reminds me of the old RS500 nice in
straight line, just do not expect to
much at the twisties.

Not convinced on Roller Barrels either,
bit like the Slides V Tb's argument
but each to his own.

On the S54 for sure you can improve
anything but study the S54 closely and
you will see that it was not so bad
straight out the box, areas for
improvemnet for sure, but a CSL
with 360 bhp and refined mechanical grip
will be much quicker on Track
than one with 400 bhp and a set
of Billies bolted on.

Same sort of issues like your Escort.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Mike RT4]

Alex,
If you check with Ohlins, you will find that they don't list ANY dampers off the shelf for the Cosworths, I had these custom built for me .

[Mike RT4]

Hi,

Your power numbers are interesting but
do you have any comparission with a
Higher Air temp ?

Again you're showing your lack of knowledge with these things . The air temp is the ambient temperature inside the dyno cell for SAE correction purposes. The actual charge temps that these figures are recorded at is a static 40 deg C intake temp, achieved with a water jacketed intercooler and a 20,000 litre tank with the flow controlled by a thermostatically operated pump.

What is your increase in Oiling for
the Bearings in that Turbo, [T4] as no
matter how large your charge cooling
or any amount of water or meth!!
injection keeping that thing in
check when it Glows Bright red it
will deform all that nice Carbon bling
in no time.

Yet again you're making assumptions LOL. The turbo is a Motorsport derived one (loosely based on the old RS500 touring car ones), it has no increase in oiling, as it is designed to operate all day long at 2.2 bar. In fact, to give the engine cooling an easier time, the water-cooling of the turbo has been removed (as is the norm on race cars, as the water cooling on road cars is just done to speed up the warming up process and help cool the oil on shut down to prevent it crystallising in the oil ways and blocking these when Joe Bloggs shuts the engine off without letting the turbo cool down. Obviously knowing this, I let the turbo warm up and cool down properly, so it's not needed and just puts extra heat into the cooling system on a track car (as the turbo is on reheat virtually all the time). Regarding the turbo internals, I advised earlier that the car runs ALS, which if you knew anything about how that works (retarding the ignition so that unburned fuel goes straight into the turbine wheel where the heat ignites it and effectively turns it into a jet engine to keep it spooling between gear changes, thus removing LAG ), then you'd understand that a standard turbo wouldn't last five minutes with this arrangement, due to the IMMENSE heat this generates. However, the turbo is far from standard, it has a custom made Mar-m 247 shaft, which is safe to extreme temps (a standard turbo would fall apart at 1000 deg C (as measured 6" from the turbine wheel), where the Mar-m 247 shaft regularly sees 1150 deg C with no issues :supz:. The manifold is also heat coated, to reduce the under bonnet temps.








The Escort (being a homolgation car), has heat management features built in as standard and actually has gills at the back of the engine bay in the inner wings which vent into the outer wings, where the airflow creates a low pressure area and pulls all the heat out from.

Hi,
Do you run revearse pattern Cams ?

No, but it has had the hydraulic lifters removed and been replaced with shimmed solid lifter items, with Iskey double valve springs and custom profiled solid lifter cams. This is to prevent valve float that the standard hydraulic valve actuation gives above 7000rpm and 2 bar of boost.

All said and done, I have no doubt that
you have invested a lot of time, money
and at times frustration, but in truth I
believe that with say 375 BHP and a
properly sorted chassis you would lap
just as quick if not quicker.

Again you're making assumptions. The chassis can cope with all of what it has at present (I agree though, that any more and it would make it harder to drive faster, which is why I haven't gone further). With JUST a change of turbo, it would make 630bhp (the inlet then becomes restrictive and would need changing back to a single throttle butterfly)), but that would loose 1000 to 1500 rpm of boost threshold (turbo dependant), reducing the power band. In the vids you have seen, when I want to go sidewaysi, it has the power to allow me to deliberately overdrive the car, but I do this for FUN . If you watch the other videos on You Tube, you will see that I can drive it quickly and smoothly if required .

Having the ability to dial in large amounts
of toe, camber castor and so on will never
make it turn in correctly, or roll in and out
progressively.

I didn't say it did, but it allows me to set the car up to how I want it to drive, the car is very neutral. If I want the front to tuck in (if after attacking the corner too aggressively), I can give a little lift and it does so. It rolls in and out beautifully with the way it is currently set up, and for fun, you can grab it by the scruff of the neck and overdrive the tits off it and it won't bite you - when it does slide, it does so progressively and gives you plenty of warning .

Looking at the film footage it looks great
fun, but it snatches and wants to
push when not really being pushed,
certainly not the quickest way around the
black stuff, even if does pump out
over 500 BHP.

It snatches, because it has ultra grippy tyres on - they're hard to unstick, and then regain their grip quickly. I think before you comment on how hard it is being pushed, you need to be in the car, as the camera doesn't give a true indication of the speeds .

Better traction would be much kinder
to your tyres and then you could
spend less time in the Pits !!

15-20 minutes at a time is more than adequate for me. Because of the speeds it gets up to compared to other cars, the concentration required is on a different level. You have to have your wits about you, as some drivers aren't expecting the closing speeds involved, so you have to think for them as well in order to be safe . Things happen so much faster, that you'd end up frazzled if you spent too long out on track (or make a mistake and hurt someone). It's not an endurance race, it's for FUN LOL.

Reminds me of the old RS500 nice in
straight line, just do not expect to
much at the twisties.

The RS500 didn't seem to do so badly against it's old adversary the E30 M3 back in the day - sufficiently so that the regulations were changed to outlaw the car, because to win, race teams realised that they had to have an RS500, which meant that despite it not being a one make race series - you wouldn't have known from the grid line up LOL.

Not convinced on Roller Barrels either,
bit like the Slides V Tb's argument
but each to his own.

The roller barrels create an extremely short intake run. The moment that the throttle is cracked, the engine is having the air forced into it. With a single throttle butterfly, the air has to pressurise the plenum before it enters the engine and although the delay isn't significant, the difference can be felt (hence why it was developed for the "works" cars.

On the S54 for sure you can improve
anything but study the S54 closely and
you will see that it was not so bad
straight out the box, areas for
improvemnet for sure, but a CSL
with 360 bhp and refined mechanical grip
will be much quicker on Track
than one with 400 bhp and a set
of Billies bolted on.

Same sort of issues like your Escort.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

I thought you were a Cecil expert ?

Firstly the claimed factory figure is 355bhp (360PS) and secondly, very few make that figure . When I get one, rest assured it will have extremely well considered modifications - just like my Escort .

[northernjim]

Again you're making assumptions LOL. The tyres get hot before anything else does (as you can see from this video)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4onG...e_gdata_player
It beeps at the start because the pressures have been dropped and it's giving the low warning alarm. Once they get up to pressure (with some heat in them) it then turns off. Towards the end of the session, the tyres start to overheat (the alarm trips when they go above 80 deg C). However, as I can see some good scalps in the distance, I elect to ignore the alarm until I've reeled them in and had a "play". Not wanting kill the tyres, I then chose to come in and let everything cool for the next session. Not being a car that is used on a daily basis, it has been properly prepped for track work :blalalala:.

Did you slow that video down or something???


If you don't time, how do you know if you are fast???


turbo's feel fast but ultimately, you can't polish a turd

[Curly]

I remember being impressed with your watercooled brakes at the ring, we spoke many years ago in the car park, guess 2003 ish.

Looking at this video of Donny in the Escort the lap times are no faster than a standard CSL so wondering if it just feels miles slower because of the power delivery?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22tqRTDxCbc&list=UUMJdbe1Kky5WsSI2QyEumMA&index=11

For what it is worth, I think a Drexler plated diff is the best money you can spend on a road going M3, traction is so much better, and miles more predictable when it lets go too.

Wow mick what an awesome vid! Carn't believe how fast ya took them Kramer curves:notworthy:And ya braking into the turns was unreal,how many G's ya pulling? Great work fella:supz:
Carn't wait till ya get a CSL bud,I carn't believe your not a racing already!!!

[shimmy]

Has Lancashire just come out of Hibernation

[Curly]

It's been especially cold this winter shim :blalalala:

[shimmy]

It's been especially cold this winter shim :blalalala:

Or just been too busy on the homocycling club weekend trip organisation to Scarborough.

[Pooky]

I've read through this thread twice now, still baffled.

[cantfind1]

Hey Mike......if you want to speak to someone about getting some extra power out of an S54 then give George at Technosport BMW a call...

http://www.technosport.co.uk/

Have a look at his race car engine and the power it develops on an engine dyno....There's a good vid on youtube. This would be too extreme for a road car but somewhere in between would be perfect for you it seems!

If you can find a cheap CSL S54 engine then its a big improvement due to cams and exhaust valves....Just stick it in a standard M3...

[_Nathan_]

Last time I saw that car racing the engine lasted 9 laps before shitting itself so kinda proves thr point. Was very fast though.

[AlexGTT]

Wow mick what an awesome vid! Carn't believe how fast ya took them Kramer curves:notworthy:And ya braking into the turns was unreal,how many G's ya pulling? Great work fella:supz:
Carn't wait till ya get a CSL bud,I carn't believe your not a racing already!!!

I thought similar.

How's the scalp bag looking John?:smokin:

Has Lancashire just come out of Hibernation

I think he's only opened one eye. Wait till he's fully awake.:wink:

[shimmy]

I think he's only opened one eye. Wait till he's fully awake.:wink:

Japs?