CSL or GT3 the age old question

[Jon8710]

Hello all

im having worrying thoughts about 911's again and just wanted to run some of my man maths past you to see if im being a silly sod or if its something I should run with as it might be my last chance for a while.

im getting married this weekend and after the ball busting out lay this has cost im weighing up my car options for the future and im sure kids will be knocking at my door in the next few years and then all obscene purchases like fast cars are out of the window for about 15-20 years and my brother once told me get your toys while you can!!!

so here's my thoughts

I could sell the CSL "with a heavy heart" and with the help from HSBC get my self into a 997 GT3.1 fine

but my question to you in the know is do you think with the whole brexit thing and all that the bottom is going to fall out of all this and my £80k GT3 will be worth £50k in the not to far future or are these machines still sought-after enough that they are going to hold up no matter what "within reason" happens?

or do you see cars like the CSL and GT3 only ever appreciate.

it has never really bothered me regarding the CSL as I bought it at it lowest point and have been lucky enough to ride the wave of appreciation
although it will hurt to buy a car at the top of its wave of appreciation if it had not been for the CSL raise I could never have afforded something like a GT3.

I know its not all about money but as mentioned I feel lucky enough to have owned a car that has risen in value and I don't want to blow it.

answers on a postcard please

jon

[Yanto_csl]

Fook knows on values mate.

But first, congratulations on the big day and second, do what you can, when you can ! If it's within grasp and an ambition to get into Pork, I think you've already answered your own question !

[Jon8710]

thanks very much mate,
i havent been on here much over the last few months but im going to try and get out for a few bevs for the xmas doo,

its more of a change thing really i love cars as we all do and i want to experiance lots of different ones,

the CSL has been one of the best cars i have owned and dont want to sell it but obvs cant own both,

none of this will happen untill spring anyway just looking for some guidance.

cheers

j

[Alx007]

Hello,

Congratulations on your wedding (I had mine 2 month ago). :-)

I am a bit in the same situation as you.

I would love a 997, but in GTS form, since values seem to be closer to the CSL.

I think I will keep the CSL in the end. Despite being disappointed with modern BMWs, I am still a BMW fan and the CSL is more practical and could even get used if the family gets bigger.

All the best,
Alex

[nw99]

Brexit has caused a lull in the classic car market and GT3's have come down in price . Having had one before I would definitely say buy one while you can it's a great car.

[Jon8710]

Hi thanks for the comments,

I was also looking into the GTS it's a great looking car fully loaded as well!!

I'm more inclined to the GT3 as I feel it will hold its price more and if I'm taking out a loan to make up the short fall I don't want to be paying of money that I won't have any chance of seeing back if you know what I mean.

[still no worries]

Hi mate
I did the marriage thing 7 years ago followed by twin boys 5 years ago, since the boys I've only put 5 thou on the Csl so you could say they've made me money, as for the gt3 lovely car but I don't thing I could part my csl.

[GregorFuk]

If you can comfortably afford the CSL but would have to stretch yourself and get into debt to buy a GT3 I'd honestly stick with the CSL. As someone who works in the oil industry I can tell you that you never know when things may start to slide and it's always easier to hold onto something that's already bought and paid for.

[DazBlackCSL]

Congrats on the big day :beer:

So as I waved goodbye to the CSL a few years ago, after 4 plus superb years of ownership my sadness was diluted somewhat due to the incoming GT3 7.1.

In a nut shell, GT3 was a great great car and I'm glad I ticked the ownership box, but I miss my CSL, the end.

[DazBlackCSL]

If you can comfortably afford the CSL but would have to stretch yourself and get into debt to buy a GT3 I'd honestly stick with the CSL. As someone who works in the oil industry I can tell you that you never know when things may start to slide and it's always easier to hold onto something that's already bought and paid for.

So true :beer:

[glendog74]

So true :beer:

Thank you please :beer:

[DazBlackCSL]

Thank you please :beer:

:beer::beer::smt055

[PeteGray]

Buy the GT3, it's definitely different enough to the CSL to justify a change and, in my view, worth the extra outlay for that different experience.

I can't see the car market nose diving but, there's already a gentle drift down in prices as the economy continues to stumble forward amid political uncertainty (not sure this is the case with the CSL?).

I firmly believe that new low's have been created for special cars, such as CSL's and GT3's, and you should get most, if not all of your money back when you sell.

A potential threat to the 997.1 price is the introduction of the 991.2, manual, GT3 (there not having been a manual GT3 in the 991 series before). That said, the majority of 991.2 GT3 buyers may well spec the PDK box, so it's not a given that this will overly affect prices.

Regardless of the 991.2, the 997.1/2 GT3's are very special cars in their own right and still look like very good value against a lot of older air cooled Porsche's.

Now the dust has settled on the Cayman GT4 there seems to be a growing voice that believes that the 997 GT3's is still the better car, and certainly has the better, GT3 specific engine, whilst the GT4 has the normal 991.1 Carrera engine. Prices of GT4's are still higher than the 997, which is understandable as their all mega low miles, look great, go great, and have lovely interiors. Give it a few years though and the pull of the 911 could see the 997 move ahead of the GT4 and further underpin prices.

[Pip1968]

Jon8710, personally I would also say go for it. I cannot see the bottom falling out of the GT3. I bought a 996 GT3 (arguably a more hardcore GT3 with no aids whatsoever apart from ABS) back when the CSL was unloved at £25-30,000. Then the GT3 was cygnet waiting to become the swan price wise at least. This was around 2009 and most 996 GT3 were around £45,000. About two/three years ago prices went mad - up to £70-80,000 and this has subsided slightly as everyone started selling. 997 GT3/RS reflected this at a slightly elevated price as it is a newer model.

At the time I nearly opted for the 996 GT3 RS which at £60,000 was stretching my budget. Well that was a mistake as they are now £120-150,000 ish. In deciding to keep the CSL as an icon and occasional track toy I opted for the GT3 over the RS.

The GT3 is a beautiful drive and very different from the CSL. The car is so tactile you feel completely in touch with the road and the car's response to changes in undulation, camber, turn et cetera (mine has been set up for track). I hate to say it but I prefer it to the CSL. The main bugbear being that the GT3 is stick/manual and the CSL is paddle shift.

Back onto topic I cannot see the bottom falling out of the market on these. The 996 and 997 both run the race proven Mezger engine and are stick drive. The 991 GT3 came along and there was no manual option and no racing history (see exploding GT3 engines) so suddenly 996 and 997 prices took off. There maybe a small adjustment if Porsche do issue a 991 GT3/RS with stick but I cannot imagine it will be much if at all. They are very different cars.

Most drivers of Porsche GT3/RS like the full interaction of a car without all the electronic gimmickery on the 991s. Even the motorsport boss Andreas Preuninger recognized this and so the 991R was made (sold out immediately and prices through the roof). Unfortunately most buyers new are not the real enthusiasts that end up with them once the 'shiny kit syndrome' is over or the car is over three years old. What I am saying here is I do not think there will be any great drop.

The biggest reason for a drop would be a sudden increase in interest rates so that those speculators actually prefer the liquidity of cash and so sell these 'investments'. And when is that ever going to happen - no time soon.

One thing to bear in mind is that the Porsche is a far more expensive car to run. It is best kept as a second car or track toy. Do you intend in tracking her? Are you going to get Clubsport specification (more expensive than Comfort Spec - comes with bucket seats, roll cage and only two seats).

I think the other thing to think about is will you go back to a CSL as finding a good one could prove difficult. In theory you will have the funds to get back in due to the price disparity between the CSL and a GT3.

Personally I hanker after a GT3 RS although they are not massively different from the GT3 and in the back of my mind do not want to regret selling the CSL. The 996 GT3 is a keeper.

I think Outnumbered or someone else had a 997 GT3 RS in orange as well as a CSL. Maybe worth a PM.

Best of luck.

Pip

[nw99]

Very well written Pip , couldn't agree more I have love my 997 GT3 RS would only sell it for the next manual Porsche RS.