cups

[Pooky]

Both - the whole car just starts to move around when they get hot. They work fine and then just start fall off a cliff. You then have to come in and let them cool, where they then recover.

It's just a pain in the arse on a track day, as it spoils the momentum. Just when you start to get into a groove, the car starts to slide and loose grip everywhere (in the same way as a normal road tyre does after a few hot laps) and you have to come in.

I think we were just spoiled with the Cups, as they were amazing. However, the Trofeo Rs perform in a similar way (but cost as much as Cup 1s did when they were expensive).

Honestly just don't don't buy this as fact given what I've learned from the tyre engineers at Michelin who developed them and original Cups. Fair enough I've not driven them on the CSL but I have on a number of other cars including my GT3 and they are just better at everything, and absolutely obliterate the Trofeo R in the wet. This may be your test result but that doesn't mean it applies to everyone.

They told me to use the Porsche spec tyre on the front of the CSL, and keep the pressures low from the start and not to let them get above 2.5 bar. But I never got the chance.

[shimmy]

Honestly just don't don't buy this as fact given what I've learned from the tyre engineers at Michelin who developed them and original Cups. Fair enough I've not driven them on the CSL but I have on a number of other cars including my GT3 and they are just better at everything, and absolutely obliterate the Trofeo R in the wet. This may be your test result but that doesn't mean it applies to everyone.

They told me to use the Porsche spec tyre on the front of the CSL, and keep the pressures low from the start and not to let them get above 2.5 bar. But I never got the chance.

wish it was true but tbh who cars about wet performance. It's all about dry performance, ability to stay usable and not go off on a 1400kg+ car are the only requirements.

[Mike RT4]

Honestly just don't don't buy this as fact given what I've learned from the tyre engineers at Michelin who developed them and original Cups. Fair enough I've not driven them on the CSL but I have on a number of other cars including my GT3 and they are just better at everything, and absolutely obliterate the Trofeo R in the wet. This may be your test result but that doesn't mean it applies to everyone.

They told me to use the Porsche spec tyre on the front of the CSL, and keep the pressures low from the start and not to let them get above 2.5 bar. But I never got the chance.

Try them and then comment .

I am used to Cups, so I tried the pressure settings for those (starting at 25-26 and maintaining them at 31/32) and I tried keeping them at a higher pressure (like you are supposed to with the R888s). Still the same, the grip falls away like the R888s - if anything it falls away quicker (as you would expect) if you try to run them at a higher pressure.

With no weight over the front axle, maybe the Porsche is kinder to the tyres, but they make a special compound rear (specifically for the the weight of the engine) for the Porsche, so the fact that the CSL uses the same front compound as the Porsche is probably half the problem. If they used one specially designed for the car (as the OE Cup 1s were), then maybe they could better deal with the weight over the front wheels like the original Cups could.

[Mike RT4]

Ta

How much did you pay for the Trofeo R?

£1300

[shimmy]

£1300

Fook

They had better be turbocharged

Dunlops are only £850

[Mike RT4]

Fook

They had better be turbocharged

Dunlops are only £850

I paid £1200 for my first set of Cups back in the day :bigcry:. Gone are the days of getting them for £800, as they're all gone now

[shimmy]

I paid £1200 for my first set of Cups back in the day :bigcry:. Gone are the days of getting them for £800, as they're all gone now

Yes most are. I looked at Cup1 285/35/18 for CSL which you can still get but won't fit under arches with my rims, but only £235 each.

[khooni]

dammit. dun the cup 1s grip in the dry......

please make a big batch for csl owners pls Michelin.\\

shite in the wet but who cares.

[AlexGTT]

Does that mean my 2 x Cup 1 sets are worth £2,500/set? :whistle: :hahaha:

[khooni]

fat hope. no one wants them but us track rats. With Cup2s and their all weather prowess, I'll offer you 500 quid per set :whistle:

[LaSource]

I use non N rated Cup 2s (so no special Porsche compound) on a 996 GT3 platform and they work fine - ie far far longer stints than the 3-4 laps suggested above. Fresh tyres in the morning session can take a while to settle down - pm session they are rock steady.

Guess the E46 is much heavier to change the behaviour so much. Though I will try the Cup 2s at some point.


(Btw, I have a full set of slightly used csl size cup 1 which will be advertised soon).

[Mike RT4]

I use non N rated Cup 2s (so no special Porsche compound) on a 996 GT3 platform and they work fine - ie far far longer stints than the 3-4 laps suggested above. Fresh tyres in the morning session can take a while to settle down - pm session they are rock steady.

Guess the E46 is much heavier to change the behaviour so much. Though I will try the Cup 2s at some point.


(Btw, I have a full set of slightly used csl size cup 1 which will be advertised soon).

The Porsche uses it's tyres differently (slow in fast out) and I understand that the rears are especially developed for the rear engine loading and there is no weight on the fronts (which is the opposite to a BMW). The CSL carries a lot of corner speed and loads the front far more aggressively, hence why it needs something that can take the temps before going off. If you drive your M3 like your Porsche, you may get another lap or two out of the tyre before it goes off, but pushing as hard as you could / would with Cup 1s and the Cup 2s are found wanting.

Even at the 'ring (which isn't overly hard on tyres), you can't do more than two back to back laps with the Cup 2s.

There are three of us that all think the same (all on the relatively heavy front engined / rear drive (BMW) platforms) circa 1300-1400kg.

It will be interesting to see what Alex thinks, as he pushes his CSL hard .

[shimmy]

The Porsche uses it's tyres differently (slow in fast out) and I understand that the rears are especially developed for the rear engine loading and there is no weight on the fronts (which is the opposite to a BMW). The CSL carries a lot of corner speed and loads the front far more aggressively, hence why it needs something that can take the temps before going off. If you drive your M3 like your Porsche, you may get another lap or two out of the tyre before it goes off, but pushing as hard as you could / would with Cup 1s and the Cup 2s are found wanting.

Even at the 'ring (which isn't overly hard on tyres), you can't do more than two back to back laps with the Cup 2s.

There are three of us that all think the same (all on the relatively heavy front engined / rear drive (BMW) platforms) circa 1300-1400kg.

It will be interesting to see what Alex thinks, as he pushes his CSL hard .

Strange coz the old Toyo R888 used to go off jus as quick if not quicker with 6GT3 and Rs than the CSL

[Mike RT4]

Shimmy,
I can't comment on the R888s on cars I haven't tested, but they were absolutely brilliant on a 260bhp Lotus Exige, and as good as they were on that car, they were absolutely shocking (worse than normal road tyres) on my 550bhp Escort. So much so that I actually thought there was something wrong with the car (puncture), as the car started moving around so much after just two hot laps.

Strangely as a road tyre, the R888s were amazing as well, even fairing well in damp conditions. They just seemed to drop off a cliff on track on any car over 1400kg.

Although the Cup 2s aren't quite as bad as the R888s in the way they fall away when they got hot, the drop-off in performance is annoyingly noticeable and spoils the time on track.

I know a guy that loves the R888s on his Z4M running them at 37psi (and he is fast), so it may also be driving style, but I couldn't get the R888s / Cup 2s to perform like the Cup 1s.

I attributed the poor performance of the R888s to sidewalls that weren't stiff enough - perhaps that was the issue with using them on the rear of the GT3s?

[billyboysm3]

Way to go is some Apex Arc's 10J's 18's for track rims with Dunlop 03G