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Alcon Brake issues - please look

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    #16
    Hi,

    NZ_M3- Are your Calipers Shimmed corectlty
    and centered to your discs ?

    Ie] with the front wheel off when you rotate
    the disc through 360 degrees does the disc
    always stay even equall distance from the disc
    face, ?

    Also check to see if the calipers are sitting
    ''square' to the face of the disc, so that
    the gap between the face of the Pad and disc
    is more or even.

    If the calipers are not aligned true to the
    face of the Disc, which can be a machine or
    tooling issue at manufacture, then you will
    not only destroy discs very quickly but you
    will suffer Brake Judder.

    Softer Pads, such as DS2500 will wear and
    tear which will compensate a little for
    components which are out of true,
    where as Harder Pads will throw up issues
    very quickly.

    I know AP supply thin 'shim' washers for their
    Calipers which are used to 'true' caliper to
    edge of disc, but I have seen some on rare
    occassions where thin spacers have been
    required to centre the caliper over the discs
    faces.

    Looking at the pictures of your Discs, although
    hard to tell from a pic there does not seem to
    be much Pad residule on the face, so I would
    guess that Pads are not overheating.

    Are your Pads able to move Ok within the
    Caliper body, as sticking pads will cause
    judder and can lead to disc warp.

    As a note- when I had AP's on my E39 M5 I had
    terrible Brake Judder after about 2000 miles.
    AP replaced the discs, and then the same again
    more or less.

    Was running DS2500 Pads. No point Tracking
    2 ton of E39 M5 with recirculating Ball steering.

    Then on the third set the discs were not only
    bedded in but they were taken right through a
    full over heat cycle so that the discs were well,well
    'blue' where they meet the alloy disc belles.

    Never had any issues after that.

    Regards,

    The Gorilla.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by The Gorilla View Post
      Hi,

      NZ_M3- Are your Calipers Shimmed corectlty
      and centered to your discs ?

      Ie] with the front wheel off when you rotate
      the disc through 360 degrees does the disc
      always stay even equall distance from the disc
      face, ?

      Also check to see if the calipers are sitting
      ''square' to the face of the disc, so that
      the gap between the face of the Pad and disc
      is more or even.

      If the calipers are not aligned true to the
      face of the Disc, which can be a machine or
      tooling issue at manufacture, then you will
      not only destroy discs very quickly but you
      will suffer Brake Judder.

      Softer Pads, such as DS2500 will wear and
      tear which will compensate a little for
      components which are out of true,
      where as Harder Pads will throw up issues
      very quickly.

      I know AP supply thin 'shim' washers for their
      Calipers which are used to 'true' caliper to
      edge of disc, but I have seen some on rare
      occassions where thin spacers have been
      required to centre the caliper over the discs
      faces.

      Looking at the pictures of your Discs, although
      hard to tell from a pic there does not seem to
      be much Pad residule on the face, so I would
      guess that Pads are not overheating.

      Are your Pads able to move Ok within the
      Caliper body, as sticking pads will cause
      judder and can lead to disc warp.

      As a note- when I had AP's on my E39 M5 I had
      terrible Brake Judder after about 2000 miles.
      AP replaced the discs, and then the same again
      more or less.

      Was running DS2500 Pads. No point Tracking
      2 ton of E39 M5 with recirculating Ball steering.

      Then on the third set the discs were not only
      bedded in but they were taken right through a
      full over heat cycle so that the discs were well,well
      'blue' where they meet the alloy disc belles.

      Never had any issues after that.

      Regards,

      The Gorilla.
      Hi Gorilla

      Thanks for your input.

      The Alcons do come with spacer shims and I've measured the gap for the full 360 turn and it runs true to the surface of the disc, it is also square (that was the first few things I checked) - when it isn't square you can hear pad knock (my experience anyways)

      The spacing shims for the Alcons however aren't designed to space the caliper axially, rather it spaces the caliper radially to the disc.

      Thanks for your input .. seems like there's a couple of possibilities that I can further investigate.

      What about the pad hitting the bell as it expands? I have less than 1mm gap between the bell and the pad - wondering if it might be this causing the judder?

      I did run the disc through 3 graduating heat cycles as per original post - the discs aren't as blue as I hoped, but that was probably just me picking up speed sooner than I should. Perhaps another round of bedding in you suggest?

      Comment


        #18
        If you want your disks to last longer then ditch the DS3000 regardless, they are far more aggressive than RS29, sintered rather than ceramic based.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by _Nathan_ View Post
          If you want your disks to last longer then ditch the DS3000 regardless, they are far more aggressive than RS29, sintered rather than ceramic based.
          YES SIR!! Will do straight away :hahaha:

          now who wants to ship me some RS29s:beer:

          Comment


            #20
            what shape code are alcons using?

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by shimmy View Post
              what shape code are alcons using?

              Mintex MDB2607
              Alcon 4497
              Pagid U8028
              SBS 3061
              Ferodo 3081

              Comment


                #22
                If in doubt, talk to Alcon Direct.

                I went to the factory last week in Tamworth. Strictly speaking, they are not open to the public, but were nothing more than extremely helpful.

                They have a rather rapid old RS6 which one of the staff uses partly as a development car. This runs the advantage kit (same as E46) and they also swear by the RS29s for road and track.

                Jonathan.

                Comment


                  #23
                  I got the BBK AP with RS14's and I sometimes get judder on track...

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Its the pads, we had the same in testing on the cup cars. RS29's problem solved.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Thorney View Post
                      Its the pads, we had the same in testing on the cup cars. RS29's problem solved.

                      Awesome!! There's a consensus on the CAUSE it seems!!!

                      Going to get some new Pagid Pads then :hahaha::thumbs:

                      Cheers for all the hep fellas!!

                      Admin - feel free to move this post to the appropriate forum section.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by NZ_M3 View Post
                        Admin - feel free to move this post to the appropriate forum section.
                        Done.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by shimmy View Post
                          BUT THE WARPED oval ONES SOUND FAR TOO EXTREME TO BE A BIT OF PAD DEPOSIT - fuck it , caps like Duncan!

                          hA HA sHIT hAPPENS ...bollox !:hahaha:

                          Comment


                            #28
                            rs14 are just piece of shit !
                            rs29 are the best !

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by 7.77 View Post
                              rs14 are just piece of shit !
                              rs29 are the best !

                              :bigcry:

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by shimmy View Post
                                :bigcry:
                                I take it you're still running with RS14s then Shim? And all based on the recommendation of a Pork Gayman driver :whistle: :hahaha:

                                Comment

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