SUSPENSION CHOICE KW or NITRON...!!! (heeelp )

[DazBlackCSL]

Lee

Few Questions in response to your post ?

Where did you get hold of the 3 - Way KW kit ? These are NOT off the shelf and are full race kits so need a proper set up, i.e KW wont sell you one unless:
1. You already know what your doing ( race team etc )
2. Or have advised you as to where to take it to get it set up correctly

So I assume you brought this kit directly from a dealer, who should of done it ?

I assume the german KW dude you were referring too is Mitch ?

Who did you speak to if at all re set up of the kit ?

I can highly recommend AMD in Essex who set up my Non standard Clubsport Kit, this kit was hand built in the factory with some 3-way race kit parts and springs, and needed a proper set up which AMD did. ( They race in the BTCC on KW's currently )

I tweaked about with the spring rates and had Raeder Motorsport next to the ring do a bit of fettling and yes it took me a while to get it perfect and how I wanted it, but now it's perfect.

The other place that know and understands KW is ThorneyMS , now they dont use KW anymore but the knowledge in the kits and cars doesn't evaporate just because they dont stock it anymore, they raced on and sold KW 's for years, and highly recommended them at the time, as they did when I wanted a kit, and did my original set up on first kit which was a V3 ( to be honest probably the best kit for me needs ) and it was an awesome set up that TMS did, so there is two that I know off that fully understand KW in the UK already :whistle:

Different car (evo), but I did the "what suspension?" thing to death this year. Looked (hard) at Nitron, KW, Exe-tc, Ohlins etc. In the end I went for KW competition 3-way (pricey!)

Now I'm about to do the suspension on my CSL.

What I can tell you that I've learnt along the way...

1. Unless you are a suspension guru, stick to a single adjuster setup !
2. Ideally, top-adjusters are best to save scrabbling around underneath the car
3. Consider carefully the after-sales service you will get. If you need advice on fitting/setup, is your supplier available on the phone and speaks the same language (the real KW setup guy is German, has good english but its not the same...) Also when it comes to needing them serviced/repaired, how easy/costly is that going to be?
4. If you've an off-the-shelf kinda car, buy an off-the-shelf package
5. Choose a vendor with a proven experience in your car, not just x years in the suspension industry - all cars are different.


For what its worth, for my CSL I'm going with intrax 1k2 from simpson. My next choice would have been KW Clubsports. If KW had a decent (fitting/setup) outfit in the UK I might have gone for them, but their UK arm is just a box-shift job.

HTH !

cheers
Lee.

[mattCSLnut]

I'd say AP's save 1 or 2 kg's per corner as well. Very useful as un-sprung weight.

Very true :smt045 I knew I forgo something

[shimmy]

the lowest i got my car to for Spa was 1334kg without driver and low on fluids (car, not me)

[AlexGTT]

I'd say AP's save 1 or 2 kg's per corner as well. Very useful as un-sprung weight.

[mattCSLnut]

My CSL was 1405kg on the scales at Simpson in full fat configuration (all options & rear seats fitted). It had 1/2 tank fuel iirc.
:

I think your biggest weight savers on your CSL Rob are the SS middle & Light weight RACE back box. 15-20 kg saved right there over O.E. :thumbs: and possibly the KW suspension with lighter springs & shocks, so probably another 10 kg saved there, over O.E. :beer:
At a guess, the A/C system probably ads about 25 kg to the "No Options" 1460 kg CSL ... the Xenons no more then 5 kg, the Comfort screen no more then 1-2 kg, the PDC no more then 2 kg and the Stereo with speakers probably around 5 kg. Anyone know the exact ' real ' kg figures for all the above ?

[AlexGTT]

Both times the CSL was on the scales with my small tool kit in the boot, so you could probably take at least 5kg's off those weights.

[AlexGTT]

Mine as set up by Simpson's:

Xexon headlamps, A/C, Business radio/CD,
AP's, SS BB & centre section, Intrax.
3/4 tank of fuel
No driver
1394kg's

Before mods mine was 1425kg's with similar fuel load, no driver.

Out of interest, my previous well specified E46 M3 with SMG was 1592kg's with similar fuel load, no driver.

[glendog74]

Mine with 2/3 tank fuel, aircon and stereo on Intrax which is lighter than normal suspension was 1420kg with no driver. 1385 with driver and luggage is in the realms of fantasy I'm afriad.

My CSL was 1405kg on the scales at Simpson in full fat configuration (all options & rear seats fitted). It had 1/2 tank fuel iirc.

alexk - do you now weigh only 30kg? :hahaha:

[shimmy]

It's not 1460kg, it's 1385kg with driver and luggage.
Hypothetically, 'mine' should be 1300 with full tank (without me inside) at this moment.

1385 Inc driver and luggage :hahaha:

[shimmy]

:thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

It's not 1460kg, it's 1385kg with driver and luggage.
Hypothetically, 'mine' should be 1300 with full tank (without me inside) at this moment.

Where is the Gorilla when you need him ?
Do you have any 'real' figures ?

I guess the official BMW M3 CSL brochure is WRONG then :smt017 as is the supplementary Owner's Handbook for the BMW M3 CSL, where it says, and I quote:

Weights

Kerb weight, ready for road, with 75 kg (165 lb) load, 90% fuel level, excluding optional extras ....... kg (lb) 1460 (3219) :whistle:

Where are you getting your numbers from mate ?
Picture of the 'real' figures below :whistle:

[_Nathan_]

Mine with 2/3 tank fuel, aircon and stereo on Intrax which is lighter than normal suspension was 1420kg with no driver. 1385 with driver and luggage is in the realms of fantasy I'm afriad.

[nick///M3]

This is what is happening 99% of the time when someone puts a 'race' suspension to use it on the road.
It is better in one area, and worse in another 9 areas.
That's exactly why shimmy said earlier that the OEM suspension is the best thing for the road.
That's also the reason why I personally didn't change my suspension. Most of my kilometers are on the road (Swiss road which is better quality than many racetracks).

Also, my opinion is that if someone doesn't understand what the car is doing, it's better to stay away from adjustable suspension. You don't need any suspension wizards to tune the suspension if you understand what the car is doing and what you need to change.
Now don't get me wrong about this, that I am saying something between the lines. Quite the opposite, I am saying this in general because I have seen many guys with a super-duper suspension and have no clue about suspension settings/behavior whatsoever.

Last but not least, I will be able to provide some feedback next year about my favourite Ohlins suspension :whistle:

is the clubsport, Nitron sport+ , 1K2 "race" suspensions???? i don't think so..maybe i am wrong but please explain better on this...

i did not ask for someone to give the settings on the plate here...
i ask to make a comment on the behavior of the suspensions on the road based on their experience....

depending on the car's behavior from it's understeer or oversteer how the wheel's come of the line how it does handles bumps and yaps i would go and set it at my personal preference...

I need feedback of how the chassis behaves with the suspension and how everybody who uses a kit of them is feeling the car....

I said i don't want it to be harsh and feel crashy and gives the bottomed out feeling all the time ...i want it to feel hard, stiff, firm, almost noise-less...i am talking about ride quality...

i am not thinking moton ohlins intrax. too much for my needs and possibly will never have the "pleasure" to properly use them

i want a step up from what i currently have on the car.a step up from medium range coils.i would like single adjustable but the most i would go is clubsport....

I wish you go for the ohlins kit. you used to drool over them a long time ago when you were still in Athens.

[alexk]

Just a little joke :hahaha: nothing serious.
What I'm not sure about though is how you're getting your regular "PHAT" M3 down to these weights :smt017 when a GENUINE M3 CSL (without any options, so: no A/C, no CD player, no Xenons or PDC or even Comfort screen) is 1460 kg with 90% fuel, 68 kg driver and 7kg luggage... or 75 kg driver without luggage :whistle:

It's not 1460kg, it's 1385kg with driver and luggage.
Hypothetically, 'mine' should be 1300 with full tank (without me inside) at this moment.

Where is the Gorilla when you need him ?
Do you have any 'real' figures ?

[alexk]

Me too, hopefully :whistle:
BTW didn't the LOADED CSL run Ohlins suspension ? :smt017

Yes, the racing one...