Worried with those subframe stories

[Alx007]

Hello,

I hope everyone is doing well.

A lot of those subframe stories have made me quite worried.

It sometimes even makes consider selling my CSL.

The BMW "specialists" in my area have never heard of it - just like the guys in Munich actually...

I have heard that BMW doesn't recommend the foam injections anymore.

Some say that this procedure was just supposed to delay the problem in order to pass the 10-year goodwill repair, but that it does not solve the problem.

My car gets regularly checked (at each inspection), but I am wondering if I could do any preventive work.

It seems that the cars are harder to repair once the foam has been injected.

Thank you for your advice and kind regards,
Alex

[Monkey]

Hello,

I hope everyone is doing well.

A lot of those subframe stories have made me quite worried.

It sometimes even makes consider selling my CSL.

The BMW "specialists" in my area have never heard of it - just like the guys in Munich actually...

I have heard that BMW doesn't recommend the foam injections anymore.

Some say that this procedure was just supposed to delay the problem in order to pass the 10-year goodwill repair, but that it does not solve the problem.

My car gets regularly checked (at each inspection), but I am wondering if I could do any preventive work.

It seems that the cars are harder to repair once the foam has been injected.

Thank you for your advice and kind regards,
Alex

Hi Alex,

You could get the aftermarket reinforcement plate kit fitted as a precautionary measure. It's quite expensive though, around £1000 for us to do it. I would say though, if yours has not cracked by now, there's a good chance it wont.
I have seen them crack in 3 different places, so make sure you get it checked thoroughly by someone who is familiar with the issue.
If you need to know which areas to check, let me know and I will take some photos of a car at work and upload them on here.

[Alx007]

Hi Alex,

You could get the aftermarket reinforcement plate kit fitted as a precautionary measure. It's quite expensive though, around £1000 for us to do it. I would say though, if yours has not cracked by now, there's a good chance it wont.
I have seen them crack in 3 different places, so make sure you get it checked thoroughly by someone who is familiar with the issue.
If you need to know which areas to check, let me know and I will take some photos of a car at work and upload them on here.

Hi James,

Many thanks for your precious advice.

If you were not that far from where I live, I would have taken my car to you.

I am sure there are some detailled pictures on where to look for the cracks, but if you don't mind, I would be grateful if you posted some.

The guys here in Geneva don't really seem aware of the issue.

I often drive the car without the radio on and I'm always trying to listen to any suspicious noises. It seems fine so far...

I'll pray that it doesn't hapen to mine as I am not too keen on the foam injection.

Again, many thanks for your help.

Kind regards,
Alex

[LeinsCSL]

Alex, I went with both the reinforcement plates and the foam injection as a purely precationary measure. With no cracks found and the 10 year period from BMW running out I decided it was worth doing for my peace of mind, as my CSL is a keeper long-term I think

[Alx007]

Alex, I went with both the reinforcement plates and the foam injection as a purely precationary measure. With no cracks found and the 10 year period from BMW running out I decided it was worth doing for my peace of mind, as my CSL is a keeper long-term I think

Hi Leins,

I remember talking to you about this at the bar of the hotel in Munich.

The ideal would be to find a competent garage to do it either here in Switzerland or even in Germany.

Many thanks,
Alex

[LeinsCSL]

Can't advise on Germany I'm afraid, but I'd be very surprised if there aren't some good indepedent garages there who have done a few CSLs before. There must surely be a demand for it I would have thought?

[Alx007]

There might be some specialists, but the BMW dealers in my area don't really put me in confidence when it's something other than their regular business.

[pinkpanther008]

Rear floor

There might be some specialists, but the BMW dealers in my area don't really put me in confidence when it's something other than their regular business.

Alx,

Have you tried writing to BMW Switzerland to ask about the well known rear floor issue? THey might help you remind your dealer of the fault and assist you getting it rectified or inspected properly?

Good Luck
PP

[alexk]

Alx,

Have you tried writing to BMW Switzerland to ask about the well known rear floor issue? THey might help you remind your dealer of the fault and assist you getting it rectified or inspected properly?

Good Luck
PP

As per BMW Switzerland...
- There was never ever a problem with the subframe of the E46 M3 and E46 M3 CSL.
- There was never a CSL in the world that has been repaired.
- If your BMW was ever on a track (even for BMW driver training), whatever warranty you had (even if the car is 1 month old) it gets terminated immediately.

PS: here we have 3 years factory warranty and then you are on your own

[shimmy]

i guess they have decided that the chance a legal case succeeding is very low so are denying it all.

have you tried the BmW techical repair paperwork that is issued to solve the problem

[Alx007]

As AlexK says, they have never heard of it here.

The technical papers state models until February 2000 if I remember correctly, so they will just ignore it.

I have been put in contact with a guy that owns a small garage who is a BMW specialist (and a big CSL fan).

He did mention that it was quite a rare problem. He has client who owns a CSL with 40'000 km of hard track driving and the car is flawless.

He said that as a preventive work, we could install PowerFlex bushes.

He did not mention the foam injections though.

I might take my car there for the next service.

Thank you again,

Alex

[shimmy]

As AlexK says, they have never heard of it here.

The technical papers state models until February 2000 if I remember correctly, so they will just ignore it.

I have been put in contact with a guy that owns a small garage who is a BMW specialist (and a big CSL fan).

He did mention that it was quite a rare problem. He has client who owns a CSL with 40'000 km of hard track driving and the car is flawless.

He said that as a preventive work, we could install PowerFlex bushes.

He did not mention the foam injections though.

I might take my car there for the next service.

Thank you again,

Alex

alx

sounds like that guy doesnt understand either

[Alx007]

Thank you Shimmy.

So the best thing would be the foam injection + the reinforcement kit like this http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-91...ement-kit.aspx ?

[JBird]

Hi Alex (OP Alex that is)

Where abouts are you? Before you go ahead with the plate kit, I would wait for the photos from Monkey, and have the floor thoroughly checked by someone who knows what to look for. The cracks on the LH tend to be more visible, you can get a small camera in through stabiliser bar bracket to take a photo. Those on the RHS (for me at least) were not visible till the floor was removed. You need to get in there with a probe camera to have a chance of seeing them, and the the wax and dirt on the surface would have to be cleaned off. I just put some updated info on my repair here.

You are right that there appears to be less acknowledgement of the problem in other countries compared to the UK. When I was trying to get my (UK) CSL done in Germany I asked at M directly (through some friends that work there) if they could recommend a Garage in sthn Germany experienced with the repair. To my surprise they claimed that the cracks never happen on any late model E46s/M3s, only on the very early 98/99 std E46s. I laughed and explained that every second car with an SMG in having the floor replaced, to which they were sceptical. I really wonder how many of the goodwill claim statistics filter through to the engineers responsible for issuing the repair guidelines, and if (as you hinted at) it is still the correct repair method long term. i.e., is a replaced-and-foam-filled-floor only going to crack again in a few years?

If you read German M3 forums it seems some people have had the repair done by BMW under goodwill / kulanz. When asking in Switzerland, try to differentiate between body warranty and goodwill. AFAIK goodwill is 10yrs worldwide, and that is how everyone gets the repair done. The 3yr factory warranty you mention should be irrelevant. I don't think anyone in the UK ever had more that a 3yr base warranty without paying for it. There is a 6 or 12 years on body corrosion depending on if it is an 03 or 04 car. Many 03 models have been repaired under goodwill between 6 and 10 years age for example. I suspect you need to push harder / ask the right person. Print out the repair guidelines, and go to a bodyshop with pics of the damage. Obviously remove any go faster bits, and you never went on track if asked!

Anyway, if you manage to find cracks, and are considering trying to get it fixed in Germany feel free to PM me for some garages. I did quite a bit of enquiring before ultimately getting it done in the UK.

[JBird]

alx

sounds like that guy doesnt understand either

Agreed. I don't think poweflex bushes will help, and I am sceptical of the reinforcement kit, certainly not without the foam injection.

I honestly think a car that has only been on track will be less likely to have a cracked floor than a car that has been only on the road. To me it's the cold low rev changes typical of everyday driving that send a jolt through the drive line that loads the 3 diff bushes to the limit of their progression which in turn loads the subframe bushes and floor. Well, that and sharp bumps like those from potholes. Maybe the problem is more known in the UK because the roads are so unbelievably shit? The high rev changes that you can achieve on track tend to be crisp and smooth. Anyway, I digress, thoughts are irrelevant, BMW want to hear that it hasn't been on track, so that's what you tell em.