tyreleader cups performance on track :(

[mattCSLnut]

Hi Matt,
I accept that the pressures could be a bit high. What it doesn't account for is consistency of the track and why it degrades evenly through out the day.

It should be a 1-time.. oh that's bad and remain the same. But it doesn't, it just constantly goes down. NB I have tried these 35 psi HOT temps for 8 trackdays now and have never felt the tyres going off the way they are doing now. Gradually rubbing off performance the entire day such that at the end, it was basically understeering everywhere.

I'm going to try again and see if i can get new cups on soon and report back.

Unfortunately there is no "could be" about it You've run these Cups now (over inflated) for 8 track days, overheating & over working them (due to the wrong pressures) so you've probably altered their compound in the process. Now they are at the very end of their life it's natural for them to behave the way you've described. They are telling you it's " GAME OVER "
Don't forget to "Heat cycle" your next new set of CUPs before any track action :beer:

[estoril_csl]

Don't forget to "Heat cycle" your next new set of CUPs before any track action :beer:

Just for the record, how is this best done?

[s.mac]

Agree with all, pressures too high. Also suspension set up, this can be different on the same track on different days. Needs tweaking to suit on the day.

If you are that keen you should check the tyre temp across all tyres and 30 to 32 psi max HOT, I would be closer to the 30

Lap time could drop because you are over driving chasing times. You might not think it but been there done it. Lacking confidence on grip could also hinder times.

[Rick H]

8 tracks days - same set of Cups? Is this realistic? I was expecting 2 maybe squeeze 3 at most?? what's normal for somewhere like Oulton?

[billyboysm3]

Just for the record, how is this best done?

Me, shimmy and Duncan paid track group to do ours or alternatively go for a very long drive heating up the tyre gradually. Spa would be good or drive to track night before.

This saves them from going hard, I managed to wear mine down to canvas with little loss of grip.

I'd say 7-8 track days if all dry, plus a couple of wet ones.

[khooni]

Sigh.

This phenomenon is on new 2012 cups. Previous 7 track days were on 2 different sets of 2012 cups. Yes I am on my 3rd set this year. And I just ordered a proper new set.

I am not sure we are all on the same page here. All I am pointing out is the inconsistent performance which may be due to a freak set

[khooni]

You are starting with wrong tyre pressures and I believe this is making everything else irrelevant.

One more point.
What do you mean with your car is setup to understeer ?
Again I am puzzled because I have a setup in my car, it doesn't understeer nor oversteer and I go fast with it.

Edit: obviously it can drift when I want it to drift but not on it's own (like KITT)

what i meant was that at the limit it has a tendency to understeer and that it is very difficult to provoke the tail to move under trailing brakes. The converse side of it is that I can brake very late and very hard and come off the brakes quite easily to provoke the turn without being afraid of it snapping on me.

I think standard CSLs are more neutral than my cars you can have fun more easily under braking. But, they all react the same way to throttle.
I asked Anthony the same question and he said we all set them up to race this way. hmmm.

[mattCSLnut]

Me, shimmy and Duncan paid track group to do ours or alternatively go for a very long drive heating up the tyre gradually. Spa would be good or drive to track night before.

This saves them from going hard, I managed to wear mine down to canvas with little loss of grip.

I'd say 7-8 track days if all dry, plus a couple of wet ones.

Run to the Ring on a fresh set day before the On track hooniganism usually does the trick :supz:

[khooni]

it took me 75miles to drive to Silverstone on the new set so it is effectively heat cycled. But for arguments sake, I'll try an evening at Brands before i change over to the new set and run it at 30psi HOT to see if it feels better.

[billyboysm3]

What sort of lap times can your beast get round Snetterton, hoping to go end of month.

[khooni]

I am not a good driver by any means but I did manage a 2.20 flat last wednesday.

let me know how you get on. I don't see many CSLs out there anymore. only the extreme modified e46/e36..

when are you thinking I might join you. It's a pretty cool circuit.

[octainejunkee]

Pretty sure your problem is down to high pressures.
(always adjust once hot after a few laps) 26-28psi hot,is good for cups.
You should put a few mild road miles and a couple of heat cycles on the tyres to bed them in before tracking them also.
Not sure they'll behave properly regardless of what you do to them if youve cooked them now.
Keep them for road use only if they dont behave well at Brandshatch.
You should be in the 51-53 second a lap on the indy circuit with coilovers and a bbk.

[khooni]

pretty sure it is NOT only due to high pressures.

I have explained time and again that my previous 2 sets of 2012 tyres didn't behave this way. The 3rd set did.

I may be running high pressures but I have been consistently running high pressures for the last 8 trackdays. and only the last one did this crop up.
And I can ususally lap to within a couple of tenths on average so 10 sec is a lot of ground to cover.

[khooni]

51 to 53s on a standard CSL is pretty good going. My best time was 55 sec so far.

[s.mac]

I did a set of front cups in 1/2 a day, it was due to incorrect camber for the track. Knocked them well out and got through the afternoon.
IMHO it's not down to the tyres but the set up, which is a combination of the lot.
You need to alter everything on the day but if you are normally a tenth out lap to lap you know all this