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Some clutch installation details and experiences (Long/not 56k friendly)

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    Some clutch installation details and experiences (Long/not 56k friendly)

    This isn't meant to be a type of thread (I leave those to guys like Nick and Calvin) but since the forum has been a little slow today, I figured I would share some of my epxeriences and maybe a few of you will even find some useful information out of this.



    -A little bit of background

    One of the main components I have not dealt with regarding my car and didn't know the condition of was the clutch. It has always grabbed well and operated as it should. I removed the CDV over a year ago. A few weekends ago I was at Road Atlanta for a track weekend. Since I lived <1 hour away I just stayed at home and drove up both mornings pulling my tire trailer. On the second morning, I noticed my clutch had a hint of slip when I was pulling the trailer to the event. I later did the 2nd to fifth gear WOT test and the RPMs hung up there a little longer than they normally did. Ok, clutch is on its way out.



    I did not feel like trying to put it off and hope the clutch would hold out until the winter time. I was worried that it could go all at once and possibly leave me stranded far from home and AAA has a limit to their free towing distance even for plus members. Time to head off this issue before it gets too bad.



    -Some preperation stuff

    Naturally I did much research and made sure I had purchased things I both needed and wanted to do while I was in there. That is kind of a thread in itself so I will leave that out.

    I knew the exhaust bolts might be difficult. I managed to get all three nuts off on the flange closest to the engine. On the far flange, one of the nuts rounded off and one of the studs sheared when I tried to take the nut off. Time to call in the artillery.



    I took the car to a friend/shop owner that specializes in Land Cruisers and does all my powder coating for me (one of the co-owners has an E30 he tracks so we often talk as well). He helped me get the ba$tard studs and I put new bolts and nuts on and used antisieze on them (note I did not yet put in new gaskets). After this I really didn't drive the car hardly at all bc I didn't want those bolts to see too much heat as I wasn't planning on replacing them again after a few heat cycles.



    -The tear down

    Ok so I wish I had pictures for you hear but I was trying to be quick at this point and was running around at the same time. I won't get into detail because there are DIYs out there that take you through this just fine. I will come back to handling the bell housing bolts for the transmission.



    -The meat of the project and some "while I was in there"

    Ok so there is a whole story behind this project which ultimately lead to me removing and installaing the transmission 4 times (don't be scared by that, I made a bone head mistake which is impossible to make unless you have the specific kit that I'm using) but we aren't going to get into that and those that know don't need to share it (you know who you are ). Needless to say I can pull the trans out pretty quickly now and it actually doesn't bother me that much.



    Replacing the selector saft seal was a no brainer since its quick and cheap.





    One of the most ideal things you can do with the trans out are the detent pins. The parts aren't too expensive and it will cure that fifth gear lean (I got it when it was cold out but it would have undoubtedly gotten worse).

    One of the shift pins on top of the trans (there are 3, held in by freeze plugs, very easy to change them)





    The detent pins - here you can see I've already done reverse (see the nice blue cap held in by the snap ring). I'm comparing the sleeve I just removed from the 5th gear detent (the one deformed) to the new one which has only been just started into the well.



    You have to deform the old ones to get them out. I tried to use a small slide hammer but the bottom edge was too small for me to be able to get onto. The procedure is to find the gap running down the sleeve (it is small but clean and look carefully and you will see it) and then take a small thin flat head (or your tool of choice) and gently tap it between the cylinder wall and the sleve right at the edge of that gap. BE CAREFUL not to score the cylinder wall (after I managed to get the screw driver started I basically let it center itself as I tapped it in and that worked well). See the DIY of your choice for more directions.



    Concerning the orientation of the detent pins (shift pins have no radial orienatation so you can't screw them up), make sure you get it right when you drop them in.

    See the beveled edge





    The DIY should specify this. You can also manually check my twisting the selector rod while looking into the well. You will see a cam rotate into place and that is where the beveled edge needs to make contact. Also, the detents for reverse and 5th are different (one has a flat beveled edge and one is rounded) and the DIY I had specified which is which. If you somehow ended up with both detents have a flat edge, it will still work (ask me how I know ) but obviously you want the right part.

    #2
    Regarding the detents - people have told me before that the detent tools aren't necessary to do the job and technically, they aren't. However, why in the world you wouldn't use them, if you can get them, I don't understand. The tools make the job almost thoughtless and definitely eliminate the PITA factor that would surely be there otherwise. Basically, the tools make CERATIN that you to it right the first time and don't have to buy more parts and wait because you screwed up and drove a sleeve too far into a well.

    One thing to note is that there are two drifts that have the same diameter but slightly different height.



    Thanks to Calvins help via phone on a Saturday, I learned that the taller drift is meant for the well with the taller casting (which is the top well (reverse IIRC)). The sleeves sit at the same height relative to each other but since the castings are at different heights, one of the tools is taller to compensate. Then all you do is tap the drift in until it bottoms out and boom, the sleeve is at the perfect location and the tool has done it all for you.


    Before you assume that the detents are in the correct location after assembly. Go ahead to rotate the selector rod and make sure it doesn't take too much effort. Rotate to the right to check the 5th gear detent (should be pretty easy) and to the left to check reverse (should be more effort but not monumental) and both should push the shaft back to center when you let off the effort. I suggest this because otherwise you will install the trans and notice that it is WAY too difficult to get the shifter over (or impossible) and then have to pull the trans back out (ask me how I know )


    -Rear main seal

    This is simple. If your rear main seal is NOT leaking then don't touch it. If it is then you can PM me or anyone else that has done this. Mine wasn't leaking and I should have left it but after putting in a new one for the second time, it seems to be good to go. Why no touch it if you're in there?? Even if you do it right and are very careful, you're chances of having a no leak seal are about 50%. Many people just let theirs have a very slow leak and live with it and since the best test to see if it leaks is to drive the car you can't be certain until EVERYTHING is back together.




    Thanks to Nick (fiveeightandten) for posting up the torque specs for the rear main seal carrier way back in the day. I stumbled across that exactly when I needed it.


    -Flywheel

    So the kit I used is not OE (sachs clutch + Luk DM flywheel) but for street use, that is exactly what I would go with. My kit is the bimmerworld strapless clutch kit. I will come back to this but let me say right now, the kit I used is a RACE kit, not a street kit. If you want an in between then the JB Racing flywheel with the M5 clutch is probably the best option.


    Installation, I just held the FW up with two bolts LOOSELY threaded in (use new bolts). Then I took the remainder of the bolts and applied loctite red to them and finger tightened them down (make sure to pull the first two back out and apply loctite). With the bolts finger tight, start going around in a star pattern with a ratchet and tightening them down ~a half turn at a time. You're actually walking the flywheel into place here so only do little bits at a time. At the end, tighten down to specified torque.







    -Pressure plate

    I would advise you to start by first making sure the pressure plate bolts will all easily thread into the flywheel. Do this by threading them in without the pressure plate in place (see the above picture).

    The bimmerworld kit specified NO loctite for the pressure plate bolts (again use new bolts) but you will want to check on the specifics for your kit.


    Here are some pics of the bimmerworld kit




    Removable pressure plate insert to facilitate easy and cheap rebuld (can't do this with a typical "strap" type clutch).




    Clutch disc which weights 1.5 lbs and is only like $150 to replace which is good for a clutch component



    The BW clutch is labeled "Flywheel side" in English. The Sachs disc is labeled getriebseite (or something like that) which means gearbox side (as in that surface needs to face in the specified direction for the less technically minded).


    The BW kit is balanced as an assembly after it is made and must be installed in the correct relative positions which are clearly marked






    One thing that I know troubled someone else and luckly I caught on my own was that there is some play between the clutch alignment tool and the clutch disc. I have shown 2 pictures and if you look at say the bottom edge of the disc you can see that the gap between that edge and the edge of the flywheel changes as I move the alignment tool up and down.

    Letting it sit on its own (pulled down by gravity)



    Pushing up on the clutch alignment tool...




    I found that by pushing up some, the alignment was good to get the transmission input shaft on without a problem. If its not right, the shaft won't go on so you'll know.


    -Transmission components

    Other components you need to replace are the clutch pivot pin, the clutch fork, the throwout bearing, and the guide tube. Optional is the fork retaining clip (I did but I'm not sure it is necessary). If the input shaft seal of the transmission is leaking then go ahead and replace it here but just like the rear main seal, if it isn't then don't touch it.


    Installation of these things is pretty clear once you see it. The only things I feel are noteworthy are the following. Make sure you liberally lube the guide tube with white lithium grease (you can get liquid wrench white lithium at most corner auto parts stores). Also lube the place where the clutch fork toughes anything (the back side on both ends, the inside where the throwout bearing sits and where it slides on the guide tube) and lube the pivot pin.

    Installing the throwout bearing is not hard but it can be screwed up (ask me how blah blah blah).

    There are shoulders behind the front of the throwout bearing (the shoulders need to be lubed) and these shoulders will slide onto the inside of the fork



    In this pic I'm pushing down on the shoulder with my finger and its not moving. There should be very little play (there will be a small amount) in being able to rotate the shoulders of the throwout bearing once it seated in the fork.



    What can happen is people put the TO bearing in 90 degrees off and then have a lot of play in there.


    Regarding metal pivot pins... using these are fine and a good thing BUT you have to make sure that they fit snuggly in there.

    Comment


      #3
      I will finish this up on Wednesday, thedood and I are ditching school/work to play cat and mouse at the track tomorrow

      Comment


        #4
        i really wanna know this boneheaded mistake so I can hold it against you

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by das borgen
          i really wanna know this boneheaded mistake so I can hold it against you
          Rich... you're pretty much the exact reason I'm not sure I want to tell anyone.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Mr Estoril
            Rich... you're pretty much the exact reason I'm not sure I want to tell anyone.
            too late, you let the cat out of the bag... shouldnt of posted anything in the thread about it....

            Comment


              #7
              Interesting -- unsprung disk on solid flywheel. AA uses an unsprung disk on a solid flywheel in its clutch kit and it worked fine for me, but that was with a full face disk.


              The bonehead move was putting the detent bushing in the wrong way and nothing to do with the clutch job?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Mr Estoril
                Rich... you're pretty much the exact reason I'm not sure I want to tell anyone.
                I m honored

                Comment


                  #9
                  nice.

                  what clutch is that? any word on how long they last?


                  the last 6 puck i had in my older car only lasted about 24k miles... and was common for that type of clutch. not sure if its the same with m3's

                  Comment


                    #10
                    cracky, you dont t want a Bimmerworld Strapless Clutch on a street car


                    like Mr Estoril said...it s a race clutch

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by das borgen
                      cracky, you dont t want a Bimmerworld Strapless Clutch on a street car



                      like Mr Estoril said...it s a race clutch
                      this....



                      I just installed one on a race car as well, got to drive it around for a little while, and it's DEFINITELY only a race car part...



                      Its a damn On/Off switch, with NO slipping

                      Comment


                        #12
                        *facepalm*

                        been there done that. daily driven (for more than 2 yrs)6 puck, unsprung hub,3xxxlb pressure plate(heavy pedal). k thanks babies


                        fawk its like i just got my license or something up in hurr .


                        I still am curious as to how long its known to last.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by cracky
                          I still am curious as to how long its known to last.
                          kit just came out this year.... Wont know for a few more years.... As primary installation is all on race cars... trailered to, trailered home

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks for sharing, Joe.


                            Rich, dont worry Joe is a nice guy and will share it


                            You dont want the strapless kit on a street car and drivnig around in traffic.....

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Nice work! It would be nice to know how it drives!

                              Comment

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