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**m3f_vmbray** · 08-13-2012, 04:34 AM

On the links you show, run don't walk. Consider lemforder or BMW parts pretty much exclusively. If you want poly bushings that's a different story. Don't waste your labor with cheap parts.

You can get e30 ball joints and have a shop press them into your front control arms and save a bit. Make sure its a good shop can be tricky. All the bushings, ball joints etc front and rear is gonna get you into the $1000 range using good parts. Its a lot of work, do it once.

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**m3f_salty** · 08-13-2012, 05:21 AM

I'd weigh those wheels if you are rebuilding the suspension. They might be an impediment to handling if you are going to track the car.

**m3f_wildjon** · 08-13-2012, 08:12 AM

Those rims are coming right off.

I guess i wont get that kit,

But i heard from a friend and I've read about different models that those poly bushings are good.

**m3f_fiveightandten** · 08-13-2012, 09:08 AM

Yikes. Please save that car.

I'm personally not familiar with suspension options for parts that differ in the 3-series. But (as the others are probably doing), I can provide advice from an M3 standpoint.

You can never go wrong with Lemforder suspension components. They're high quality. Meyle is about the only other brand that i'd put in the car unless you're familiar with other brands that you trust.

Dampers:

Koni SA (yellow) are good, but require a little work in the front to install the insert. You can go with OEM Sachs for the M3, and those are good dampers. Something to think about is switching to the M3 sway bar setup, which mounts to the strut housing. But you can use M3 dampers and no mount your sway to them. Bilstein are good dampers, but ride quite firm.

Front end:

You can likely get away with just tie rod ends. OEM Lems are like $50 each, not too bad, but you can save money going with Meyles.

I'm not familiar with your ball joint options. 3 series have different control arms and M3's typically can't replace the ball joints only, you can, if you want to deal with pressing them in/out. Otherwise, again, Lems or Meyle.

For FCAB's, i'd recommend the Powerflex purple ones for a few reasons; they're easier to install then OEM, they don't have rotational preload to worry about, they're not any harder than OEM rubber, they're easy to replace if you want to switch back to OEM rubber (and replacement won't require an alignment).

Sway bar end links. OEM Lems or Meyle if you're on a budget. The Lems are cheap though.

Rear:

For the rear trailing arm bushings, i'd go with OE spec rubber and limiters. Most vendors of E36 aftermarket parts have the limiters. I wouldn't use poly is that position for a number of reasons. Rubber is harder to install, but that's what I would put in there.

If you replace the rear upper/lower control arm bushings/ball joints, upgrade to the later setup of ball joints in both outer positions. It's a better setup.

If you're doing the rear subframe bushings, i'd recommend rubber again there. You can go poly, but people have had issues with the washers cupping, and on a car that's already had metal fatigue and failure there, I wouldn't put a stiffer bushing in the subframe.

**m3f_wildjon** · 08-13-2012, 09:16 AM

I am trying to save it, I need to buff it out so badly, Car looks pink!

what would be a difference between the orange and yellow koni?

Im trying to do poly bushing the whole car around. for ease and performance.

You did say to place rubber in the sub frame and trailing arm bar.

I can understand the sub frame but why not put in the arm bar?

My frame i am fully cutting out the bad spots in the frame and re welding, but you think that's still to weak to hold poly bushing?

**m3f_wildjon** · 08-13-2012, 09:29 AM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E36-Full...c6d964&vxp=mtr

Those are the bushing kit I'm getting. Two of my friends have them and one has put over 50k on them.

**m3f_fiveightandten** · 08-13-2012, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by wildjon

I am trying to save it, I need to buff it out so badly, Car looks pink!

A good detail with some proper paint correction should bring it back.

Originally posted by wildjon

what would be a difference between the orange and yellow koni?

The yellows have stiffer valving and have adjustable dampening (compression).

Originally posted by wildjon

You did say to place rubber in the sub frame and trailing arm bar.

I can understand the sub frame but why not put in the arm bar?

Here's a good explanation taken from Vorshlag's website: http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info...roducts_id=421

Many racers just blindly install polyurethane into this and all bushing locations as a "fix" for a worn OEM rubber RTAB bushing. Polyurethane is a bad choice for a bushing material if it has to deflect - such as in a multi-axis suspension bushing location like the RTAB. Rubber bushings + limiters or a complete replacement with a custom steel spherical bearing are the only two textbook choices for this location. We have seen a number of RTAB failures on BMWs that were using poly in these areas - an expensive repair and a dangerous racing situation. At the very least poly will add bind during significant suspension movement, and this can make the handling feel odd (unexplained oversteer) as well as add significant stress to the suspension-to-chassis mounts (which is how they can fail over time).

That said, some folks with fully track prepared race BMWs have had OK results with polyurethane RTABs. This is due to the much higher spring rates and smoothness of tracks they tend to run with - higher spring rates and smooth tracks limit suspension travel, and thus limits the potential for bind from a polyurethane bushing at this bushing location. So even though you may hear good results from one racer, it doesn't necessarily mean that poly RTABs are the right choice for you. If you have a street car or dual purpose BMW you should always stick with OEM bushings and RTAB limiters, and even many race prepped BMWs use this setup with excellent results.

That RTAB pocket is a known weak point and we've seen a decent amount of failures there. The welds that hold the threaded bungs in can break, and the trailing arm can tear right out of the car. They make reinforcement plates for this. After I had 3 friends find failures on their car (thank god none of them got hurt), I welded these into mine for peace of mind.

If you're on rear springs that are at stock ride height, the compression will likely deflect that bushing quite a bit. The OEM rubber is designed to move like that. The poly RTAB's limit things a bit, as they don't deflect as much. Extra energy gets transmitted to the pocket. In a point that's already weak, it's not something i'd recommend, but it's your car.

Originally posted by wildjon

My frame i am fully cutting out the bad spots in the frame and re welding, but you think that's still to weak to hold poly bushing?

I'm not sure how bad it is or what the repair job will look like. Are you installing the OE reinforcements?

Just be aware that people have issues with poly subframe bushings cupping the washers out, causing clunking. They then have to pull things down and install a fix. See this thread: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=261265

They're stiff enough to cause that.

I bought the powerflex rear subframe bushings. When I pulled them out of the box and felt how hard they were, I sold them in the classifieds at a loss and bought OEM rubber to install instead. To each their own.

**m3f_wildjon** · 08-13-2012, 09:55 AM

Wow thanks lot for that.

So i am def not going to go with poly in either of those spots

Ill got OEM in sub frame and one with a limiter on arm bar.

I am putting a reinforcement kit on the sub frame.

Damage looks worse then it really is.

Just rusty at each bolt in a 2inch by 2 inch square then everything around that is solid.

I am going to look into the rear bar kit that you had welded on. Peace of mind is what i need!

**m3f_aeronaut** · 08-13-2012, 11:17 AM

FYI, I just replaced my RTAB's with OEM style bushing. I used the RTAB tool from mistools, it worked great ($108 shipped) for both removal and install. Also FYI, many of the DIY threads on the RTAB bushings are for the 'old style' bushings with a metal flange/lip. Many of the home-made tools and methods for installing those older bushings won't work on the new bushing.

**m3f_fiveightandten** · 08-13-2012, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by wildjon

Wow thanks lot for that.

So i am def not going to go with poly in either of those spots

Ill got OEM in sub frame and one with a limiter on arm bar.

I am putting a reinforcement kit on the sub frame.

Damage looks worse then it really is.

Just rusty at each bolt in a 2inch by 2 inch square then everything around that is solid.

I am going to look into the rear bar kit that you had welded on. Peace of mind is what i need!

I got RTAB pocket reinforcements from AKG Motorsport ( www.akgmotorsport.com ). Theirs are a one piece plate, which makes welding it in a little easier. There are some threads written about this, so definitely do a search if you decide to install them. There are some intricacies of the install that you may not think of initially, but are good to take into consideration when doing the job. This is not easy welding. It's upside down, the sheet metal is quite thin, and it's in a tight spot. It can be done with the trailing arm installed and just pulled down.

www.bimmerworld.com also has reinforcement plates. They are 3 piece, which is a bit of a different design.

Here is a video of what a failure looks like. This car belongs to a friend of mine. You could hear an audible clunking coming from the rear of the car. It was scary when we found out what that noise was. Very dangerous stuff when you think about how much movement needs to happen for you to hear it slapping back and forth back there while you're driving.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=342420

Eventually it would've ripped right out.

Here are some pictures of another failure from a thread on Bimmerforums: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...51&postcount=5

If you have rust issues on your floor pan, POR15 is a good product to seal with when you're done. Use an abrasive wheel to clean off any signs of rust and coat with that stuff unless you had something else planned. Check the surrounding area for cracks very well. They can be hard to spot with the undercoat on the car, so be sure to clean things compeltely down to bare metal around any cracks until you find where they end.

The reinforcement plate kit does help, but it does so by spreading the force to other places over a larger surface area...so you need to be sure that area is a sound substrate.

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