Potential s54 swap

[m3f_Bimmerman325i]

My S54 swap was well over $10k. I don't know how much it ended up being in the end and I truly don't want to know. I didn't even modify it, just went for an OE-level/overkill swap. However-- everything works like factory, reliably, and with no "project-car-itis." I didn't recode the ECU aside from EWS delete. Everything is present, functional, and reliable-- take a look at my build thread if you're curious. Keep in mind that $10k figure is with me valuing my labor cost as $0/hr....which it isn't.



My S52 costs me practically nothing, and $40 oil changes. Great DD motor.



My S54 costs me ludicrous amounts, and $120 oil changes. Great diva car motor. Bad DD motor on a budget.



To drive the point home further: you can buy a good condition S52 (or rebuild one) for ~$2500.



I spent that just on bulletproofed S54 vanos, refreshed rod bearings, Z3M + swap wiring harnesses, and new harmonic balancer for a good condition low mileage motor. That doesn't include the motor itself or ECU or programming or fuel or emissions or exhaust or cooling or beer or .....



There's a reason I DD the S52 car, and the S54 car is driven just for grins.

[m3f_W///]

My S54 swap was well over $10k. I don't know how much it ended up being in the end and I truly don't want to know. I didn't even modify it, just went for an OE-level/overkill swap. However-- everything works like factory, reliably, and with no "project-car-itis." I didn't recode the ECU aside from EWS delete. Everything is present, functional, and reliable-- take a look at my build thread if you're curious. Keep in mind that $10k figure is with me valuing my labor cost as $0/hr....which it isn't.



My S52 costs me practically nothing, and $40 oil changes. Great DD motor.



My S54 costs me ludicrous amounts, and $120 oil changes. Great diva car motor. Bad DD motor on a budget.



To drive the point home further: you can buy a good condition S52 (or rebuild one) for ~$2500.



I spent that just on bulletproofed S54 vanos, refreshed rod bearings, Z3M + swap wiring harnesses, and new harmonic balancer for a good condition low mileage motor. That doesn't include the motor itself or ECU or programming or fuel or emissions or exhaust or cooling or beer or .....



There's a reason I DD the S52 car, and the S54 car is driven just for grins.

That's really great feedback. Thanks. Going to go read your thread now

[m3f_jbse39]

I recently started considering S54 swap as well, for my 97 M3 coupe. I purchased it a couple of years ago with less than 49,000 miles, and now at 79,000 miles. I've gone over cooling system, brakes and suspension and all other E36 maintenance items, except for scruffy body. That scruffy body is what allowed me to use it as a daily and track day tool. If it were pristine, I may not have been able to abuse it as a DD.


With relatively low miles in a great condition, I started considering S54 swap as I started feeling like it is lacking power as I progressed through HDPE groups. Long story short, one really needs to be in love with the car to go through with the swap, considering the cost involved, especially since I don't have the skills to do it myself. I contacted Markert Motorsports and a rough estimate is $15-20,000, depending options, keeping the 5-speed. A quick check on going rate for S54 seems to be around $3,500-4,000. Add to that (according to Markert) maintenance (rod baring, vanos) and update to the tune of $3,000. Obviously this is including labor cost from Markert so take it for what it's worth.


With the cost involved, I can sell my E36 and buy a nice E46, so the question I had to ask myself is, would I do it if US E36 came with the RoW engine? Is there anything else I would want from E46? In my case, not really. As much as I like E46 style and interior, as stated, both are pretty outdated and comes down to personal preference at this point.


With that said, I am not sure I can part with mine as it is such a good platform and is a great tool for learning how to drive properly on the track, so I will likely hand it down to my kids. On top of that, I've already spent enough $$ to make it a nice DD and costs very little for upkeep at this point that it I see no reason to sell it.


Now, going off topic a bit, I drove the new M2 at the Spartanburg factory with the CCA National Capital Chapter during their M Club Day (totally worth the money, BTW) and I would take it over M3/M4 any day of the week as a fun car. While it does not have the extensive options list or leather dash of the M3/M4, it feels much lighter (not that it is) and livelier. I drove an M4 down from the DC and drove it again on the track as well, and while it is nice and the power is amazing, I am not sure I would buy it over the M2.


What is all comes down to is personal preference and desire. Logic is not part of this process for some of us and if one wants it, then one will find a way to do it (along with some man math for justification, however flawed that might be ;-) ). I would love to just add an E46 to the stable, but we have 5 cars between 2 drivers, and my wife does not accept my man math-driven logic........

[m3f_Bimmerman325i]

Long story short, one really needs to be in love with the car to go through with the swap, considering the cost involved

This is not inaccurate.



If I hadn't already had a very modified car with track safety gear, suspension, and brakes, and wasn't already very attached to the car, I would've just bought an E46. Absolutely would have been cheaper, and there would be a lot fewer compromises (wheel/tire fitment, chassis rigidity, etc)

[m3f_Olemiss540]

Cumon, there are multiple ways to go about everything, but to act like a 12K swap is the norm is a little bit dramatic. Given your situation, I am guessing a s52 swap would have cost 8K as well. Need to upgrade the oiling system to have a dry sump or dual pickups, replace rod bearings, go through the top end with some high end valve train bits to rev up to 7400 rpm (oh goodie), cams since you are revving that high and need the additional lift, stage 2 rebuilt Vanos, custom s52 harmonic balancer, higher compression pistons, custom airbox with alpha n tuning, stepped headers and custom exhaust, upgraded fuel injectors and dyno tuning, etc etc. Just because you built a top notch s54, doesn't mean that is the going rate.



S54s are amazing power plants, with dual vanos, dual sumps, 8000rpm redline, 330 hp in 3.2L of displacement, itb's, and have a higher cost maintenance interval due to these things.



We track a BONE stock e46 m3 and have completed over 15 weekends (and 81k street miles), with ZERO non routine maintenance. We watch oil analysis, and are ON TOP of maintenance, but havent missed a SINGLE SESSION yet. Eventually looking at the Vanos, and will DIY rod bearings, but it sure as he'll isn't going to cost 8K all of a sudden. Enthusiasts can over think everything to the point of missing out. If the engine exploded tomorrow, 3.5k would have us back up and running after a weekends worth of work.



Worrying about rod bearings and Vanos explosions to the point of not swapping engines is like being worried to ask a HOT girl out on a date because she will expect to go to a nicer restaraunt once in a while. At the end of the day, the Sex is worth the upcharge.

This is not inaccurate.



If I hadn't already had a very modified car with track safety gear, suspension, and brakes, and wasn't already very attached to the car, I would've just bought an E46. Absolutely would have been cheaper, and there would be a lot fewer compromises (wheel/tire fitment, chassis rigidity, etc)

[m3f_Bimmerman325i]

Ehhh....



I had zero idea of the condition of my motor, and wanted to make sure I wouldn't have to mess with it for a long time. The only maintenance I was planning on was the rod bearings, since it's infinitely easier to do on an engine stand than in the car.



Once I tore the pan off it was clear that my rod bearings, on a 67k motor, were trashed. There are pics in my thread. Went with new OEM, not aftermarket. I'm extremely glad I caught this.



The balancer was starting to lose material-- best time to replace it is when it's not in the car. I went with a new OEM one. Could have chanced it, didn't feel like it was wise doing so.



At that point, I took a look at the vanos, and saw the tabs were not in great shape-- time to fix that too. Also extremely glad I caught that, they would not have lasted long.



Could I have not replaced those? Sure, and the motor may have lasted another 30k miles before a rather inconvenient or serious failure occurred. Or, I could fix it, for less than the cost of a new motor, while it was on an engine stand.



I hardly built a top notch S54-- it's completely unmodified with a stock tune! All I did was inspect known trouble areas, discover they were ticking time bombs on my specific motor, and then fixed them.



Anyway. There are many ways to go about doing an S54 swap, and if you're super patient and resourceful, you can cut the cost down somewhat. However, there are some fixed costs that eat up a lot of the 10-12k average budget. Further, the average budget is just that-- average. There will be deviation from the mean, sometimes a lot. The cost also can be brought down by selling off old parts, since there isn't much that is reusable between S54 and S50/52, but the $10-12k mean price doesn't take that into consideration.



For just the necessary parts:

motor/E46 harness/DME: $3.5-5k

wiring adapter harness + Z3M engine harness: $1.2k

DME flash if you can't DIY: $500-1000 ballpark



there's $5.5k+ already.



to which, add radiator/oil cooler, exhaust/headers, emissions components if applicable, Z3M airbox + MAF (~$500), beisan or Dr vanos, rod bearings, harmonic balancer if trashed, fuel pumps/filter/regulator, etc etc etc. The swap adds up FAST.

[m3f_Olemiss540]

Fair enough, just don't feel 12K was the median cost, but rather 6 or 7K. I am sure plenty of folks car attest to 1pK in a swap and there are a handful that DIY'ed everything and got a great deal on used parts that might be able to wrap it up under 5k.


Also, to act like the s54 is a pre-madonna and requires weekly bearing inspections is just an enthusiast taking hype over Internet propaganda to the next level. For every e46 m3 that had a rod bearing or Vanos failure at 80k, I can show 25 that has 150K miles with adhering to a routine maintenance schedule.


These are race motors, and people like to moan about not getting the Euro e36 motors, but then dog the S54 because it is too high maintenance.

[m3f_Bimmerman325i]

Just be careful with the 6-7k number, as that's frequently the total net cost after selling off old motor/trans/electronics/etc, not the cost of the swap itself. Of the half dozen that I've been familiar enough with to comment on their cost, the mean gross swap cost was $10-12k.



Yes, many S54s don't have vanos or rod bearing issues. Mine did, and by believing the internet hype I inspected those areas, and found real issues. So....anecdotal evidence suggests it's a total crapshoot whether the motor you buy will or won't have issues.



Stating that someone doing a swap and buying an unknown history motor doesn't need to inspect the bearings or the vanos is just as disingenuous as saying the motor needs new bearings and vanos immediately no matter the condition and after each track season. I personally think one should budget to do that work and be pleasantly surprised to not need it-- it's a lot cheaper to replace a couple rod bolts on an engine stand after inspecting the bearings than a whole motor.

[m3f_gpeterson]

Fair enough, just don't feel 12K was the median cost, but rather 6 or 7K.

I'm in at least 6-7k and I did *everything* myself - wiring (going cheap with E46 harness), DME flash, exhaust fab. Could have been $1k less without the 6 speed.

[m3f_Olemiss540]

I'm in at least 6-7k and I did *everything* myself - wiring (going cheap with E46 harness), DME flash, exhaust fab. Could have been $1k less without the 6 speed.

Exactly my point. Did this include the parts you sold as a part of the swap process? Thanks for the info, as I am going to be doing it soon as well. Could be a bit cheaper for me since I have the cooling system components, will keep the 5 speed and diff I am running, and since it is a dedicated track car have no concern with HVAC etc etc....