Daily driver: E36 M3 or E46 M3?

[m3f_Cha5en]

Explain your reasons why rather than making sweeping, hard to accept statements and I'll decide if you have anything worth agreeing with (or debating).



No sane person that's experienced any two of them would believe what you said the way you've written it.



I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and allow you to convince me.

You had it right with "all of them"



Even though I feel like im responding to an upset teenager, ill play.



The only difference in the Euro to US 36's are the engines, which one is far more reliable than the other, and Ill assume you know which one that is. The Euro engines are worse overall to the S54's and the e36 euro doesn't have the steering advantage over the e46 that the US e36 has, so you're left with uglier (some what subjective, i guess?), cheaper intr., less performance, less reliable e46 basically.



The advantage of the US e36 is its overall easy to DIY/less issues than the E46, while providing a more visceral steering feel for the city streets. Now I can see how youre upset with my post, in the sense that perhaps it comes off as making the e36 euro seem like a cheap pos. I dont believe that it is, but Im not delusional to its short comings to the E46 over across the pond, and its down sides to the US 36. I think if I was living abroad where I had access to them, and I didnt have enough to afford a E46, I could still live with an euro e36, although again, Im not going to stand by that my choice would be based on a better car.

[m3f_M3AN]

The only difference in the Euro to US 36's are the engines, which one is far more reliable than the other, and Ill assume you know which one that is. (emphasis added)

Hmm. And the gearbox and the diff and the list goes on. I don't want to sound rude but you couldn't be more wrong. This has all been covered ad nauseum so there's no value in discussing it further here, you can find all the info you need in the search bar.

The Euro engines are worse overall to the S54's

I don't care to guess your definition of "worse" but anecdotally far more S54's have grenaded than Euro S50's. There are very few concerns with the S50B32, the S54B32 is far more temperamental (there's a price to pay for power).

and the e36 euro doesn't have the steering advantage over the e46 that the US e36 has

Care to elaborate? I'm open to learning something new here, I haven't heard about this steering advantage, can you describe?

The advantage of the US e36 is its overall easy to DIY/less issues than the E46

That's not an advantage of the "US e36" it's an "advantage" of all e36's. And it's debatable that the e36 has an advantage here at all.

...but Im not delusional to its short comings to the E46 over across the pond, and its down sides to the US 36.

I assume you meant "e36 over across the pond" there? And you've still not explained those shortcomings. I'd love to hear what you think they are.

[m3f_M_Parallel]

You've obviously not an expert. Nor are you living in 2016 apparently.

LOL indeed.



They make good DD's. Hell, if you drive them normally, not revving it out in every gear, it's pretty docile.



And how cheap they've become? Ha if only...

[m3f_M_Parallel]

The only difference in the Euro to US 36's are the engines, ..

Only?



Oh yeah, let's just forget about the gearbox, diff, rotors, cluster...



Yeah, it's ONLY the engine.

[m3f_M_Parallel]

...That said, the E46 is much more presentable, can be purchased with more creature comforts, and the interior seems like it will hold up much better over time. Rattles and squeaks in my '36 can wear on me day in and day out....

What more creature comforts exact? No really, what can be spec'd on the E46 the E36 has not, for creature comforts. Heated seats, AC/climate controls/auto recirc. (E36 has dual zone, which was not offered on the E46). Lumbar support. Electric seats.

Not sure what else would strictly be creature comforts.



Interior. The keyword is "seems". Now unless you live in an environment that desolves the E36 interior materials, it holds up fine.



There are some weak spots like the doorcards. But not on all.



My M3's interior is factory fresh. I mean that literally. Well it's even better than factory because of fitted extended leather parts and CF trim. But there's no wear on any item. Surfaces are still matt black/dark gray instead of shiney black.



How well an interior holds up, is 99% part on the owner.

[m3f_Cha5en]

The euro e36 is a cheaper build quality, slower version of the e46. So like the e46, it falls short compared to the US e36 in city environments, as it has all the draw backs the 46 does, + some more.


You two can list off the minor advantages (debatable even if they're considered that) but it still is less of a car than the e46, and is far more costly to operate than the US e36. Again, so no ego's are hurt, I'm not saying the euro e36 is trash, it's just not up to the hype most blindly give it.


There's something special about the US s52, likely that it's got an exciting amount of usable torque and is incredibly smooth, the latter obviously being the nature of a i6 engine. In many ways the zhp e46 is actually the idea DD, if you can live without a factory LSD, which I suspect most who aren't pushing hard at a HPDE, or sliding the car on the streets, can.


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[m3f_Cha5en]

Only?


Oh yeah, let's just forget about the gearbox, diff, rotors, cluster...


Yeah, it's ONLY the engine.

99% of street owners will never notice the difference in rotors, other than when they go to replace them. Cluster? Eh that's pushing rope, along with the diff. The 5spd in the US is a fantastic gearbox for the engine, and it's fuel economy is just fine, decently better than the s54/6spd, so that's a matter of preference. I really don't see the extra gear being that useful in these cars, as they just don't make enough power to use it, unless you think cruising far above the speed limit on highways is acceptable.

[m3f_kyrix1st]

The euro e36 is a cheaper build quality, slower version of the e46. So like the e46, it falls short compared to the US e36 in city environments, as it has all the draw backs the 46 does, + some more.


You two can list off the minor advantages (debatable even if they're considered that) but it still is less of a car than the e46, and is far more costly to operate than the US e36. Again, so no ego's are hurt, I'm not saying the euro e36 is trash, it's just not up to the hype most blindly give it.


There's something special about the US s52, likely that it's got an exciting amount of usable torque and is incredibly smooth, the latter obviously being the nature of a i6 engine. In many ways the zhp e46 is actually the idea DD, if you can live without a factory LSD, which I suspect most who aren't pushing hard at a HPDE, or sliding the car on the streets, can.

You've gotta realize why he asked E36 M3/E46 M3 comparison for daily driver. He obviously does not want comparison between normal E46 with M3s. It's all about which M3 is relatively better for DD. He obviously wants more performance than non M series but wants to know which is better for DD, so end of the story for E46 ZHP (no offense, but it just isn't comparable).


And since the acceptable daily driver differs from one to another, I gave which one is objectively harsher (stiffer suspension , handling characteristics, throttle response, engine response, problems and maintenance, etc.)


I've said it on the other post, but torque band is actually broader on S50B32 (look it up) than S54B32 so

1. it gives faster acceleration around the track

2. torque is very usable on the street.

3. E36 does not suffer from subframe trunk tear.


nor does it have tremendous amounts of problems to become "more costly" to maintain compared to US M3 other than VANOS rattle, from which all M3s suffer.


I've driven both E36 M3C and E46 M3; although I agree that chassis is overall better on E46 and it is definitely more comfortable ride, heavier weight of E46 (nearly 100kg difference) does help E36 to even out.


I don't know what "minor" advantages you refer to regarding E36, but the above three points seems more than minor to me.

[m3f_kyrix1st]

And even if what you say about E46 having a bit of better performance than Euro E36, E36 euro is also much cheaper than E46, so why not go for E36?

[m3f_kyrix1st]

Euro's are all OBDI.

Is it? I thought they implemented OBDII, but only accessible from the engine bay.

[m3f_M_Parallel]

The euro e36 is a cheaper build quality, slower version of the e46. So like the e46, it falls short compared to the US e36 in city environments, as it has all the draw backs the 46 does, + some more...

You should re-read what you type. It's biggest BS ever.


The US has not a single thing over the Euro. It's better in every way.


You have obviously never driven a Euro S50. Thanks to its dual Vanos, it's an incredibly tractable engine all the way from idle. It's perfectly fine for city driving.


Some of you must be so envious, you just feel you need to talk it down. Hate all you want. It's a great car, and better than the S52 in every possible way.


S54 better? Define better? More power, yes, more torque yes (although at much higher rpm) more reliable, no.

So define better?

Didn't you guys also got the power sapping cats-in-the-hear exhaust manifold?


Maybe it's a good thing you didn't get the S50 at all. Since you all hate it so much. So why are they all bitter they didn't get it? You guys got the better engine over us. Wé should be envious about not getting that gem of an S52...


Damnit, I feel properly taken by BMW AG/BMW M GmbH, for giving us that shitty, not good in the city, lemon of an S50B23...

[m3f_M_Parallel]

...There's something special about the US s52...

A bored and stroked M52.



Yeah, really special for sure. Let's take the M52, let's make it 3.0, maybe throw in some hotter cams...done.





Maybe I sound ego hurt. Well don't worry I am not. My M3 is 18 years old. Zillion of newer cars out there today with downsized-turbo'd engines that leave me at the stoplight.



But nothing compares to driving an old school M engine, you know will never be made again. Whether S50, S54, S38, etc.

[m3f_pbonsalb]

Euro S50. Thanks to its dual Vanos, it's an incredibly tractable engine all the way from idle.

Euro M3 came out in 1992 with 3.0L single vanos S50. In 1995, Euro M3 came out with 3.2L and dual vanos. The 45 Euro spec Canadian M3s, for example, were all single vanos 1994 models.

[m3f_pbonsalb]

But nothing compares to driving an old school M engine, you know will never be made again. Whether S50, S54, S38, etc.

and S14, S65, S85.



However, I actually have more fun driving my turbo E36M3 (5MT) than my modded naturally aspirated E90M3 (6MT). It just is not as quiet and comfortable.



I am not sure these high revving engines are as relevant now that DCT type transmissions exist. In the old days where manual trans cars were faster, you could use the extended rpm to stay in gear longer while making more power or to shorten the diff gearing for better torque multiplication while still retaining a useable power band. But a DCT outshifts a human every time and allows seamless power even from a turbocharged lower revving motor that has a more balanced torque to horsepower ratio.



The older cars certainly feel more involved. But if you have ever driven a 2002, Bavaria, 635 (we had them all -- modded manuals and still have the 2002 and Bavaria), you know that involvement can be a chore. You have to love it. Not every one does. We don't really anymore. We sold the modded 79 Euro 635, the modded Bavaria is practially free to a good home (but now needs some work), and are keeping the 2002 . . . for our son -- not ourselves.



My next car will be a DCT type trans or automatic. And factory turbo. And I'll mod it to suit my needs.

[m3f_M_Parallel]

and S14, S65, S85....

Hence the "etc".


All old school, N/A, itb'd machinery.

Euro M3 came out in 1992 with 3.0L single vanos S50. In 1995, Euro M3 came out with 3.2L and dual vanos. The 45 Euro spec Canadian M3s, for example, were all single vanos 1994 models.

Yes I'm aware of that.