Best "Fake" LTW High Wing?

[m3f_westopher]

I can legitimately tell you the OEM splitter, and OEM high wing with gurneys is extremely noticeable in the seat O pants meter.

[m3f_Nate047]

I guess it would depend on the track, but typically I wouldn't take an increase in drag in exchange for more rear end grip unless I were making significant power over stock, and felt my rear end grip was lacking. Are you feeling loose in the rear end currently? (no homo lol) But yea since you have the OE wing on there already, may as well make the change with no sacrifice in points. I feel like you'll want a front splitter of some sort as well if the high LTW wing does prove to do something noticeable.


FWIW I put mine on strictly because it looks cool and I'm secretly a ricer still in spite of it all. Also I didn't notice anything significantly different driving dynamic wise after putting it on. My setup is not very loose on the back end, the car rotates but doesn't really break loose unless I really try to slide it. Or do something really wrong lol.

[m3f_Nate047]

seat O pants meter.

Best way to measure any mod lol I got 50whp from my intake and exhaust on my butt dyno

[m3f_westopher]

Its all that matters to me, as I'm not timing anything.

The only thing that gets measured in my car is how much fun I'm having.


When I had the wing off the car entirely when I was getting it sprayed with my risers, while still having my front splitter extended, even my wife commented from the passenger seat how the car felt squirrelly.


With no front splitter, I noticed no difference from OE wing, to no wing, to low rise wing. With the front I notice a definitive difference from no wing to low wing, and low to high.

[m3f_SQ13]

What about no splitter and high wing?

[m3f_westopher]

I've never run that, but bet the understeer would be noticeable. It says right in the manual from bmw don't run one without the other or it drives like shit basically.

[m3f_Braymond141]

I thought so too but that record setting estoril E36 coupe on the nurburgring ran the rear GT wing in high rise with no front aero at all.

[m3f_Braymond141]

Oh wait, he does run the splitters. BMW lists those as a necessary part to the Aero package. No tray though.


SQ, I assume you meant the tray.


https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...e-nurburgring/

[m3f_jayjaya29]

I definitely feel a shit ton of drag with my wing. Maybe a little bit of downforce when on the track in high speed corners.

[m3f_SQ13]

Oh wait, he does run the splitters. BMW lists those as a necessary part to the Aero package. No tray though.


SQ, I assume you meant the tray.


https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...e-nurburgring/

Yeah, splitter + tray setup. I might just pair my wing with OE splitters and call it a day. I can't justify $1k+ cost of OE splitter and tray. And the OE two piece splitter is probably easier to mount than some aftermarket race splitter like Motion's.


Edit: $428 for splitters on ECS, wtf


Edit2: https://www.ebay.com/itm/E36-M3-lip-...ZZVmyI&vxp=mtr

I've had bad luck with eBay parts so far though

[m3f_westopher]

I imagine front corner splitters would deflect the air away from under the front wheels which helps keep the front planted. Wider front tires also probably helped that guy fight the understeer created by a big rear wing and no tray.

[m3f_SQ13]

Maybe. I work in healthcare, aero/engineering/physics are a foreign language to me.



Pretty sure I’ve mentioned this before, but I don’t plan to track the car more than once or twice (if I ever get around to reinforcing the weak points first). With factory spec camber up front, I know the car will understeer like hell. But I still want some downforce up front so that both front and rear end are planted and complement each other; I wouldn’t want rear wing to plant the rear and have no front aero leading to very light front end.

[m3f_Nate047]

Oh wait, he does run the splitters. BMW lists those as a necessary part to the Aero package. No tray though.


SQ, I assume you meant the tray.


https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...e-nurburgring/

I shot Alex's car last year actually lol. Was supposed to run in European Car Magazine (also, Carlos' cars...) but they closed the damn book.





Anyhow I talked to Alex about why he didn't run front aero and his opinion was that with the proper suspension setup it wasn't entirely needed. His car was on Dunlop DZ03G which are basically like R888 or NT01, and with heavy front camber, the car didn't understeer, period. The rear wing does help keep the back end planted in high speed corners, no doubt about that. Also his car has what, 80whp more than a standard US E36? So the wing really does have a place there.


Since the Nordschleife has 2 really long straights, and a number of other pretty long high speed sections, extra front downforce from a splitter and the associated added drag would have made him slower. Same reason why if you look at most GT3 cars who race VLN, you'll see they don't typically run the extra dive plane/canard setup there. Most all Ring prepped cars don't have heavy front downforce in fact. Different tracks require different setups...


BUT... Just a side note, if you are understeering around slow speed corners, it's a matter of dialing in alignment/bars/ride height/wheel and tire setup, but also just gonna say it, most of the time it's driver error more than the setup. The front end shouldn't ever feel loose at high speeds, if it does that means something is wrong with your car, or you're doing it wrong. High speed understeer is almost always because of driver error.


PS: if you wanna see more shots of Alex's car, here's the set. Thing's gnarly.. Sadly he sold it a few months ago but he's building an E92 with Team Schirmer, if you're not familiar, look them up...


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/08azny9r0...24pCTbqUa?dl=0

[m3f_SQ13]

NICE. Thanks for the info.

[m3f_twentyseven]

Anyhow I talked to Alex about why he didn't run front aero and his opinion was that with the proper suspension setup it wasn't entirely needed. His car was on Dunlop DZ03G which are basically like R888 or NT01, and with heavy front camber, the car didn't understeer, period. The rear wing does help keep the back end planted in high speed corners, no doubt about that. Also his car has what, 80whp more than a standard US E36? So the wing really does have a place there.



Since the Nordschleife has 2 really long straights, and a number of other pretty long high speed sections, extra front downforce from a splitter and the associated added drag would have made him slower. Same reason why if you look at most GT3 cars who race VLN, you'll see they don't typically run the extra dive plane/canard setup there. Most all Ring prepped cars don't have heavy front downforce in fact. Different tracks require different setups...



BUT... Just a side note, if you are understeering around slow speed corners, it's a matter of dialing in alignment/bars/ride height/wheel and tire setup, but also just gonna say it, most of the time it's driver error more than the setup. The front end shouldn't ever feel loose at high speeds, if it does that means something is wrong with your car, or you're doing it wrong. High speed understeer is almost always because of driver error.

Stick to taking pictures.