Head Rebuild From Shop Question

[m3f_englishtom1596q]

Agreed with above. They probably didn't set the cams properly and have a vanos code come up. Yet another reason to DIY. Do it yourself and do it right.

[m3f_thirtysixnick]

Lifters can bleed down from extended nonuse. The result is usually ticking, but it typically goes away with a little driving as the oil pressure pumps the lifters back up. Don't think there is a lifter code.


We could only guess at the code, but doing a head job involves disconnecting part of the wiring harness so something may not have been reconnected or reconnected properly. It also involves re-timing the cams and if I had to guess, that is where the shop screwed up. They probably have a vanos mechanically jammed code or a related vanos code. It is also possible they left the cam sensor in the head and it got damaged during removal or reinstallation or by the machine shop and simply needs to be replaced.


Hopefully you will be back on the road soon and the bill won't be too big and you will be determined to learn how to DIY. I am not a mechanic by profession, but think I do a better job than most on my car. That does not mean I know everything -- I have made friends with a couple of professional mechanic over the years and they have helped me out on projects at times. There are good DIYers in this and other forums who will also help you, perhaps for a fee or a present or a donation, work on your car. The more you do the more you learn. And there are many more great DIYs with pictures than when I started DIYing before the internet.

Agreed with above. They probably didn't set the cams properly and have a vanos code come up. Yet another reason to DIY. Do it yourself and do it right.

Actually you're correct. My dad texted me yesterday telling me the shop saying they have to rebuild/replace the vanos unit... So either they're troubleshooting incorrectly or the vanos actually needs to be rebuilt???


I don't think anything I did with the money shift should've harmed the vanos, but yayyyyyyy +$600 for them to "rebuild" it with parts that I don't know where they're getting from.


After this experience I plan to DIY most jobs, even if it requires me to buy new tools and wait. I'd rather know my car is in my garage vs sitting outside untouched at a shop, and receiving work that I don't know the quality of (yet).


They said she'd be ready tomorrow, but judging from how I've been told 10+ different times they'll be done, I doubt it lol.

[m3f_pbonsalb]

We don't know all the facts. A 20 year old vanos probably would benefit from a rebuild, so rebuilding it is a sooner or later proposition to me. Now is a good time, though before it was reinstalled would have been smarter.


However, I think that if it was working before the head job and not throwing codes, it should work now. What happens is that over time, play develops in the vanos internals and a rattle can result. Cars can work fine for years with these rattles. Eventually, a seal goes and the oil pressure does not pump up the vanos as much or at all to advance the intake cam at low rpm and the result is less low to midrange power. I just don't think the money shift caused it to fail -- either it had already failed or it was good.


New vanos seals are about $35 and an anti rattle shim is maybe another $35. You can DIY the rebuild for about $75 in parts. You can also buy an exchange rebuilt unit from Dr. Vanos for about $375. Of course, the shop has put the car back together and now must take it apart again and retime the cams, so I assume some of that $600 is for a few hours of their labor. Probably 3 hours to remove a vanos and install a rebuilt one and time the cams is in the ballpark.


If you were DIYing, you would be out $75 plus some of your time. And maybe a $100 donation to a local forum member enthusiast for giving up an afternoon or evening and coming over to help you. And you would need the cam timing tools, but they are about $100 a set or you might be able to borrow a set.

[m3f_Braymond141]

A 20 year old single VANOS is still going to operate. The cams are not timed correctly.

[m3f_j0rdan J]

A 20 year old single VANOS is still going to operate. The cams are not timed correctly.

This.

[m3f_thirtysixnick]

We don't know all the facts. A 20 year old vanos probably would benefit from a rebuild, so rebuilding it is a sooner or later proposition to me. Now is a good time, though before it was reinstalled would have been smarter.



However, I think that if it was working before the head job and not throwing codes, it should work now. What happens is that over time, play develops in the vanos internals and a rattle can result. Cars can work fine for years with these rattles. Eventually, a seal goes and the oil pressure does not pump up the vanos as much or at all to advance the intake cam at low rpm and the result is less low to midrange power. I just don't think the money shift caused it to fail -- either it had already failed or it was good.



New vanos seals are about $35 and an anti rattle shim is maybe another $35. You can DIY the rebuild for about $75 in parts. You can also buy an exchange rebuilt unit from Dr. Vanos for about $375. Of course, the shop has put the car back together and now must take it apart again and retime the cams, so I assume some of that $600 is for a few hours of their labor. Probably 3 hours to remove a vanos and install a rebuilt one and time the cams is in the ballpark.



If you were DIYing, you would be out $75 plus some of your time. And maybe a $100 donation to a local forum member enthusiast for giving up an afternoon or evening and coming over to help you. And you would need the cam timing tools, but they are about $100 a set or you might be able to borrow a set.

I'm not saying the VANOS wouldn't benefit from a rebuild, but it definitely wasn't necessary in my opinion. I'm not going to complain, but I'm sure they'll be the ones figuring out the VANOS isn't the problem after they "rebuild" it and it still throws a code.

A 20 year old single VANOS is still going to operate. The cams are not timed correctly.

So in theory, they're charging me for a unnecessary rebuild. If they would've called me I would've asked them to hold off for a little so I could've made a post like this and confronted them about it, but my dad is the one making the rest of the payment as a grad gift so....

Either way I'm sure they'll figure out it's not the VANOS itself

On the bright side, if it solves the problem/doesn't, I'll still at least have it "rebuilt" I guess



I'm ready for a call today with something along the lines of "it's still throwing ____ code so we'll have to keep it. Expect to see it on *insert future date it probably won't be done*.

[m3f_pbonsalb]

They will time the cams right this time, but say that they timed them just like last time so the vanos must have fixed the problem. You will never know. However, I would have recommended rebuilding a 20 year old vanos or swapping it with a rebuilt unit while it was out; its the labor for installing it twice that bothers me more.


I suppose a vanos solenoid failure is also a potential issue. Or, if you don't know much about these wiring harnesses and let the car sit for a couple of weeks while you forgot what you observed when disconnecting the harness, you could misconnect stuff, including the vanos solenoid.

[m3f_thirtysixnick]

They will time the cams right this time, but say that they timed them just like last time so the vanos must have fixed the problem. You will never know. However, I would have recommended rebuilding a 20 year old vanos or swapping it with a rebuilt unit while it was out; its the labor for installing it twice that bothers me more.



I suppose a vanos solenoid failure is also a potential issue. Or, if you don't know much about these wiring harnesses and let the car sit for a couple of weeks while you forgot what you observed when disconnecting the harness, you could misconnect stuff, including the vanos solenoid.

You're correct. I planned to DIY rebuild it myself this summer sometime, but honestly it works... Not too happy with the price, but hey, at least if it has any problems they're held liable.



Praying I can finally get it back today.

[m3f_Braymond141]

but hey, at least if it has any problems they're held liable.



Praying I can finally get it back today.

Judging by the pricing, bullshit made up codes, and diagnoses... Good luck with that.

[m3f_thirtysixnick]

Alright so I have the car back alongside a few minor issues...



OKAY SO:

Problem #1:

Within the first two minutes of me pulling out of the shop it threw a CEL.

Shop claimed it was sticky vanos, explained how old vanos was all "loose" and such, blah blah blah, they obviously don't want to fix what it is.

They cleared the code and sent me on the way telling me "if it has any problems bring it back after the weekend and we'll fix it".

Drove it home with no CEL, it came on after I washed my car down and was backing my car into the garage to wipe it down.

The codes read for:

P0412: Secondary Air Injection System Switching Valve "A" Circuit (no clue wat mean)

P1519: "A" Camshaft Position Actuator Bank 1 (still no clue wat mean)



The car runs and pulls fine, I've done quite a few 2nd/3rd gear pulls nearly to redline and it sounds and feels A LOT better than before, including a quieter idle due to the vanos rebuild.



ANNNDDD NOWWWW, problem #2

There are roughly four puddles of liquid under my car...

I'll attach the photo below this text.

For reference this picture was taken face down through where there should be the mesh insert in my front bumper:

kill me by Nick Gauldin, on Flickr



All three puddles in the front (the semi big, rly small, and long ass trail) smell and feel like coolant.

The puddle in the back is evaporation and is most definitely just a puddle of water, so I'm not too worried about that.

(FYI: upper and lower rad hoses look tight so I know it's not them, and to the average eye inspection under the car, nothing is noticeable for the leak)



The main ones in the front drip from the bottom of the block and I really know nothing about their placement besides being able to vouch with the photo.



If I can rent a radiator pressure tester tomorrow that's what I plan to do and give the rad a little pressure test to see if I can find the source.



Picture of it after a couple hours of drying.

kill me pt.2 by Nick Gauldin, on Flickr



ALSO, it seemed to only leak when warmed up and at temperature.

After my drive to work the leak wasn't nearly as bad as this, but it also wasn't nearly 100 degrees out on my way to work, compared to the drive home.(the temp gauge didn't fluctuate from 12 o'clock both drives though, but actually seemed to move a little more behind 12 o'clock on my ride home)



If anyone has any tips what I should do, let me know. Before my car visited the shop it didn't have any sort of leaks similar to this so I almost want to blame the shops work. Definitely will be bringing it back at the start of this coming week and telling them, but if it's DIY'able I'd definitely rather save my $ and waiting time.



Cheers to never ending problems.

[m3f_Braymond141]

Take a picture of the vanos solenoid plug. I bet they plugged it in wrong, possibly mixing and triggering both errors.


Message me directly if you want quicker help; 949-5oo-8493


Is the VANOS solenoid plugged into the accordion tube plug shown in this picture? If so, that is incorrect.





The VANOS solenoid plugs into this connector that runs along the block and Y's off. One cable plugs into the above photo fuel injector rail connector and the other connector plugs into the VANOS solenoid as shown.





The accordion connector shown in the first picture plugs into the little valve between intake runners 1 and 2.





This valve

[m3f_pbonsalb]

That shop is scary. Hopefully these remaining issues are simple ones you can fix yourself because I have no confidence in the shop.

[m3f_Braymond141]

That shop is scary. Hopefully these remaining issues are simple ones you can fix yourself because I have no confidence in the shop.

I helped him get the wiring sorted. Vanos Solenoid and the o2 injection valve were indeed crossed up. Good way to get another $600 out of someone.

[m3f_betrezra]

Props Bray! Sorry if they did this on purpose..... predators.

[m3f_englishtom1596q]

Doubt they did it on purpose. Just another example of a shop with people who don't actually care about doing a job properly.