Euro vs NA M3 performance

[m3f_mighty-dog_11395d17be]

European E36 M3 has more power than our NA M3s. Their earlier M3s put out 286hp. I wouldn't contest that European cars are faster than ours, stock.



But I wonder: are European and NA M3 power and torque curves basically the same to 6000rpm or thereabouts? I checked out the info from the link provided by "Stinky" and saw that peak torque for European M3s was 236Nm at 3600rpm and for NA M3s it was the same 236Nm but at 3800rpm.



Torque and speed (rpm) relate directly to horsepower. I further wonder if European M3s have more hp than our M3s just because they rev to a higher rpm? Our 240hp @ 6000rpm would translate to 280hp @7000rpm if the torque remained the same. The European M3s 286hp came at 7000rpm.



Tks.. DC in Washington State.

[m3f_CarQz17_da02e24fb5]

Ive always wondered exactly WHAT is done differently here than over there to make those engines so damn fast??



Can Anyone Explain This To me Please?

[m3f_mighty-dog_11395d17be]

Correction to my original post:

236 lb-ft of torque!

[m3f_Vitolo_a2bba142f1]

Ive always wondered exactly WHAT is done differently here than over there to make those engines so damn fast??



Can Anyone Explain This To me Please?



Trick cams, exhaust system, higher compression...its not just the 6 tb's that make them go :dance:

[m3f_mazur_fc5757570e]

European E36 M3 has more power than our NA M3s. Their earlier M3s put out 286hp. I wouldn't contest that European cars are faster than ours, stock.



But I wonder: are European and NA M3 power and torque curves basically the same to 6000rpm or thereabouts? I checked out the info from the link provided by "Stinky" and saw that peak torque for European M3s was 236Nm at 3600rpm and for NA M3s it was the same 236Nm but at 3800rpm.



Torque and speed (rpm) relate directly to horsepower. I further wonder if European M3s have more hp than our M3s just because they rev to a higher rpm? Our 240hp @ 6000rpm would translate to 280hp @7000rpm if the torque remained the same. The European M3s 286hp came at 7000rpm.



Tks.. DC in Washington State.



If this is true :hmm: then why the hell don't they make the us-spec M3s rev limit to 7,000 also? Is it just because that europe is more special then us



But then again, is this probably why the euro M3 engines have those problems of "breaking down" more easily than the us-spec M3s? Because red lining the car w/ stock components up to 7,000 rpm might not be too healthy.

[m3f_00poop6x_6dca3456a4]

didn't they have double VANOS already before the new E46 engines did?

[m3f_mazur_fc5757570e]

didn't they have double VANOS already before the new E46 engines did?



I just looked that up and you're right. The euro E36 M3 has a double vanos(and is 50 lbs. heavier than u.s.) while the us-spec has a single vanos. Wonder why that is?

[m3f_00poop6x_6dca3456a4]

The only things I can think of is emissions.....probably took BMW a long time to really get this double VANOS thing to emit good smog for the US regulations.



The 6 speed seems better for the euros also due to the autobahn needing that extra 6th gear....and the ellipsoids to shine further in the high speed driving of the autobahn....



Either way, even with 321bhp for the euros and 286bhp....they still came out with similar acceleration numbers with ours....now THAT, I wonder why....

[m3f_Vitolo_a2bba142f1]

the 6spd transmission makes up for most of that weight difference mazur.



What have you heard of them 'breaking down'?

[m3f_mazur_fc5757570e]

the 6spd transmission makes up for most of that weight difference mazur.



What have you heard of them 'breaking down'?



I have just read previous posts recommending people to not buy a euro M3 engine because they have so many more problems than the us-specs.

[m3f_SG_M3_d1201712b5]

i haven't heard that before. The euro motor is a great motor, should have been in our cars. Instead of this 332is I own.

[m3f_M3AN_5f4dc0ba80]

In reality you need to look at it from a different angle... it's not "what they've done" to the engine... it's more the fact that they're completely different engines all together. Different design philosophies, different parts, different outcome.



They're about the same to 100km/h, primarily because of gearing.



The torque figures the factory provides for the euro are way under what's available and it all pours on real early (check my dyno in the sticky thread).

[m3f_Predator_7d824d33ea]

i can only speak for European E36 Evo owners here, but the difference the 3.2 litre evo engine/car has from the 3.0 litre engine/car are as follows :-



-the 3.2 Evo engine was developed over 3 years by the the same team which produced the V12 engine for the Mclaren F1.



- the stroke was longer than the bore



-The Evo engine was equipped with twin-VANOS, meaning that both inlet and

exhaust camshafts had variable valve timing.



-the evo Had bigger inlet valves



-the evo had lighter pistons



- the evo had a modified manifold



- the evo had graphite coated conrods to reduce friction



- the evo had an improved dual mass fly wheel and a second oil pump for full lubrication under hard cornering



-and a new engine management sytem



-the evo had a six speed gearbox, the first five speeds are close ratio for optimum performance and the 6th was an overdrive for economical cruising



- the evo has stronger stub axles, and spring plates, it has modified front track arms for increased castor and thicker stronger rear control arms.



- also the evo had Thicker anti-roll bars with lower and stiffer springs and enlarged rear wheel bearings and new dampers.



- the evo had uprated brakes with E34 M5-style floating discs and callipers at the front and a new ABS system.



- and all evo's had a staggered setup.



all of this gave the European evo a quicker 0-60 time, a much more stable straight line speed and sharper handling and breaking than a normal e36 M3.



however US M3's had a different engine ( a heavily modified 325i engine ) rated @240bhp due to emissions regulations, but they had shorter gearing ensuring that acceleration figures were as impressive as european models.



so basically all i'm saying is the f%$&ing same as M3AN ;-



"it's not "what they've done" to the engine... it's more the fact that they're completely different engines all together. Different design philosophies, different parts, different outcome" eace:

[m3f_andy6581]

The European M3 was 3.0 (Single Vanos 285bhp) until 96 i think, then it went to 3.2 (Double Vanos 321bhp)



It's the ones with the double vanos that have all the problems!

[m3f_Predator_7d824d33ea]

the only problem I no about on the EVO M3 is the vanos unit failing, nothing else and by the way the vanos unit is built by Rolls-Royce and not BMW . At the moment my car is in the garage getting its vanos unit replaced, it kept chucking out all the oil.



other than that, i use the car everyday and redline it everyday, i went through my goodyear eagle f1's in 2 months, to give you an idea of my driving. The evos bulletproof just like all m3's. obviously you get problems now and then but so do all cars.