Let's play guess this sound.

[m3f_Extrav.Dre_53c7fb859e]

Yeah, I know the M is one noise mo'fo, but this is definately not normal. Especially, since it gets worse as the car warms up. And it has been gettin progressivly worse over time.



I'm thinking I will change out the chain tensioner and go from there. If your vanos fails no damage there. If a retainer fails or gets too weak you will hit a piston (at high rpm if it is getting weak)... probably just bend a valve, have to get the head remachine and be out 'just' a few grand. If the chain breaks.. say bye bye to your engine. From what I read the chain can break because of the slack a weak tensioner can give it.. so I will definatly change mine out and see how that goes.



Any more information on the other tensioner?.. not sure where it is located. is the one outside called the primary or secondary? or are they refered to as the upper and lower?

[m3f_00poop6x_6dca3456a4]

Ahhh yes! Finally people are turning out their problems and not letting me be the only one. Luckily my problem started when I had warranty, but guess what? BMW service sucks and blamed it on timing chains and blah blah...well....after almost 2 years of arguing now, they found out that it must be the hydraulic valve lifters tapping...I got my VANOS changed out and all my belts and a tensioner as well, noise still there....





Here's the story in super short.....I brought the car in for that knocking/clicking sound and they replaced some belts, the noise died down and I accepted it.....went to college for a month or two, came back and the noise is louder than before! Brought it back, more belts, a tensioner and a pulley replaced! Same consistent noise, then when I told them the noise was still there, they told me it was a different noise now and it won't be covered under warranty....lots of fighting and arguing went on for months....my warranty expires, still more arguing....then I sent my car in for a check up for $100; they found that my valve lifters need adjustment--it'll cost $3000. Lots of arguing went on again, it's the same noise from before; they say it's not so it won't be covered under that warranty. Pulled out some papers and noticed they were supposed to change out my VANOS unit under warranty over 2 years ago from that noise. Got that changed and the noise still persists, and even louder. The arguement still goes on today.....hiring lawyers now....



Miles = 78,500k

Oil/oil change interval = Mobil 1 synthetic 5w-30(im guessing...cant remember now)/ every 2500 miles

[m3f_///sleeper_f29d08a5a4]

The outside tensioner is the "primary" one. I'm deff. changing mine out...just have to get around to it...getting close to finals up here at CU. That's crazy that your noise gets louder as it gets warmer! wtf. Mine stays the same. As for the lifters, I was spooked about those when I started my car for the first time after taking her out of winter storage. They were tapping like crazy untill the oil pressure came up...no problem since. I keep hearing that even once the vanos is replaced, they still make racket. Some mechanic needs to figure this out and he could make BANK off of fixing them for good.

[m3f_Extrav.Dre_53c7fb859e]

Wow, this is interesting. More and more people are popping up with this issue. And it kind of scares me that you have gone through so much and still not found the answer. So it costs $3000 to get the valves Adjusted?!?! I assume you havn't done this yet.



My racket doesnt really get louder, I guess only more noticable. Hard to say if it actually is louder or just me listening harder. It definately doen't die down though.



I actually had my exhaust valves replaced a year ago and my engine has sort of been rough since. I sort of dismissed it because of the new parts, including the new spark plugs, and me never really driving it. But now, I'm thinking the mechanic owes me a free adjustment after giving him 4 grand.



We need to get some more statistic and perhaps find some correlation.



8/95 M3

Miles: 81,XXX

Oil/filter change every 4000 miles using Mobile 1 (5w-30 to 10w-40, depending on time of year)



Extra notes:

Exhaust valves and lifters replaced and head remachined after over-rev at 70k miles.

Replacement of Vanos was no help





?/97 M3

Miles: 78,5XX

Oil change every 2500 miles using Mobile 1 (5w-30?)

edit: recently (10/10/04) fixed, by replacing just about every damn part there is



Extra notes:

Replacement of belts, a tensioner and a pulley was no help

Replacement of Vanos was no help



?/95 M3

Miles: ???,???

Oil change:



Extra notes:





I am thinking more and more it is a valve adjustment I need (edit: no such thing with Hydrolic lifters). If I rev the engine in neutral, I can still hear the clack at 4k rpms. Unless I have a really weak tensioner or some sort of oil leak, which I couldn't find, I'm thinking it is the valves. I just ordered the tensioner, so hopefully I will get to change it this weekend and see how that helps.

[m3f_00poop6x_6dca3456a4]

BMW tells me it's normal for the M3 and could be heightened due to my driving (the funny thing is that my parents drive it more than I do, I'm at college all year.) and that it's wear and tear...so warranty does not cover it... plus it was a different noise than before...ahem, bullcrap

[m3f_erikM3]

Ok this talk of tapping noises, which I dont have right now, oh thank you mighty god, and $3K repair jobs is freaking me out big time, I will be starting mine up to go home at midnight in 45 min. If I hear a ticking I will lose it.



Erik reaches into the narc. box to remove a 10 mg Valium :eek2: eace:

[m3f_tiMMM]

...every now and then...one of these "WTF is this tapping/clacking noise" threads comes up...and I get a big a$$ chuckle because to date...NOT a single soul has definitively figured out WTF is the exact cause and fix...I myself had this same problem and also scratched my arse wondering what it could be....



...then on my last oil change...I used Lubro-Moly(sp?) brand synthetic oil( supposedly Porsches' and Ferraris' use this brand) and the rest of the usual stuff...and since then, the frickin' noise had subsided down ALOT...I still get it now and then..but nothing like before...so, maybe it was the oil...hell if I know, but I'm probably gonna stick with that brand from now on...



....as for all the frickin' benjamins you have to fork over for the valve lifters and Vanos shiet...I feel for anyone who has to hit that route...my condolences to the fellas who shell out that much for a single repair(non accident-related)...



..anyway..after all that blabbering...I sure hope someone finally gets down to the source of this pain in the a$$ nuisance of a noise...

[m3f_Extrav.Dre_53c7fb859e]

Yeah, I think I am the one that keeps posting them :roll:



Some people may be dismissing serious noise as normal noise or just don't care too much. Seems not many people have tried to actually resolve this past asking a mechanic what it could be and the mechanic brushing it off or replacing something that doesn't help. Very discouraging to try an solve something that may not be a problem.



I know mine is definately a problem, the dealership is truley concerned and are ready to rip this engine apart to see what is going on. But they kindly suggested to take it back to my other mechanic to see what they may have done wrong before I go too deep in dept. I hope I will find an end to it.



Any other suggestions to what it could be. After replacing vanos, the primary chain tensioner and doing a valve adjustment I will be flat out of ideas (and probably flat broke :gun. Does the 3.0 have a secondary chain tensioner and could this also be the culprit?

[m3f_Extrav.Dre_53c7fb859e]

Here it is. It turned out much better then I thought it would and really lets you hear the clacking I'm talking about. I only had a real basic recorder so I had to do it in minute long sections and then just stuck it together but it's almost unnoticable. Hopefully, no one has any problems with the file, I don't have my own server so have to use this.



M3SoundingLikeArse.wav (1.2MB, 3:00 min) (http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/extravagantdreams/M3SoundingLikeArse.wav)



Anyway for some parts I had it laying down on the coolant resavoir, left of the fan shroud, this is near the beginnings and end of each minute so I could work the computer.



The first minute, I kind of just wove the microphone around the top of the vanos, right side, left side. About 23 seconds in is when the mic was touching the vanos cover, you can hear it making a vibrating humming/sound. At about 32 seconds, I stuck it sort of underneath on the left side, near the promary tensioner, and you can hear the pullies and what not (some of this is me guessing) The sound at 41 seconds is the air intake. For the second part we have a short rev. and then at 1:23 the sound of the air intake. This part also included a longer rev of the engine trying to get the sound of the clacking. The third part was more of the Vanos rev and idling. I'm not sure what the revs got up to but my guess would be to around 4k rpms, as you can tell the clacks are still there. I'm supprised how well it sounded when it turned off, it usually sounds a bit worse.



But yeah, she sounds like butt doesn't she.



Edit:

This was also done with the engine pretty cold. Not stone cold but in the blue the whole time. If there is a significant difference I may do another one after a drive but I think you get the picture.

[m3f_Sirius_880bd69485]

Hmmm. Sounds like a freight train! :P I hear BMW engines all the time, if you could get a clearer sound bite maybe. The hissing sound normal, so does that whining from the alt. That clicking is wacked out though, I have never heard anything like that...



Almost sounds like your lifters are way outa wack... but its hard to tell when you can't be there.



Intresting to say the least.

[m3f_00poop6x_6dca3456a4]

I posted a thread like this almost two years ago. :bs:



Ran into this problem with BMW and still fighting :smash: ....ticking noises are NOT a good thing, they are definitely bad! BMW knows this is a costly job and they are avoiding every possible way to have me catch them on warranty for this.....and they dare blame my driving, that's known as slander.



My friend listened to this and he knew what it was right away (kind of odd how he didn't need hefty BMW diagnostic machines and training; also he didn't need a whole year or a month after my warranty is due to find the real problem). He tunes and rebuilds engines a lot (Supra's for the most part). He had one torn apart and showed me the valves on that engine, he imitated the clicking noise and where the valves are hitting if it were my engine....very scary.



I do notice that every time I change the oil that it does die down....but it does not go away.



BMW is going to get this one hard in the face.......

[m3f_Reverend73_9c52635a59]

Hello guys, I'm new here, new to M3's (just bought a '95 coupe in Avus blue), but not new to working on cars. Mine makes a few noises, but nothing even close to that sound bite. Sounds like lifters slapping valve stems to me. Do yourself a favor though, and get yourself and engine stethoscope( basically looks exactly like a doctors stethoscope, but has a metal rod attached to the end instead of that cup thing on a doctors, probably less than $20) It will help you nail down exactly where the noise is coming from. just be careful and dont get it in the fan. Good luck



Here is a pic of the new ride...

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/a4xgatorusa/M3_1.JPG

[m3f_Sirius_880bd69485]

Welcome Reverend! Yeah, engine scopes are cool, just be careful not to bang the thing around... *ouch* :banghead:

[m3f_00poop6x_6dca3456a4]

Yeah, when I took my car to another BMW, they had a tech who took a long screw driver and listened to the source of the sound. He said it's inside the engine....nowhere near the VANOS. And next day I read inthe newspaper that he's one of the top techs of BMW in the nation. :haha: up BMW North's @$$

[m3f_Extrav.Dre_53c7fb859e]

Yeah, it's a scary sound up close and personal. The sound is coming right from the vanos area but I can't say exactly from where. It could be a(the) lifer(s) on the first piston but definately not farther back then that.



Where can I get one of these engine stethoscopes?



What exactly is happening when it is the lifters making this sound? Similarly, what does it mean for a valve stem to be slapping? Are the the valves just getting pushed too far down or back up and slapping on the valve seats/ports?



Thanks guys