Let's play guess this sound.

[m3f_Reverend73_9c52635a59]

Yeah, it's a scary sound up close and personal. The sound is coming right from the vanos area but I can't say exactly from where. It could be a(the) lifer(s) on the first piston but definately not farther back then that.



Where can I get one of these engine stethoscopes?



What exactly is happening when it is the lifters making this sound? Similarly, what does it mean for a valve stem to be slapping? Are the the valves just getting pushed too far down or back up and slapping on the valve seats/ports?



Thanks guys



Extrav, you should be able to pick one up at an auto parts store, When I said "slapping" I meant that there is too much space between the lifter and where it contacts the valve. Therefore the lifter is moving before it contacts the valve. On most modern engines (I am very ignorant on exactly what the M3 engine uses, but will rectify the situation shortly) the hydraulic lifters compensate for this gap and adjust themselves. Most engines require 8 to 12 thousanths of clearance for proper operation, but if it exceeds this amount you will start hearing what I think your engine sounds like. I'm not even sure the M3 uses lifters since it is an OHC design, but will research and get back to you.

[m3f_///sleeper_f29d08a5a4]

I'm pretty sure our cars have hydraulic lifters. I couldn't listen to your sound-bite, but from what everyone is saying, it doesn't sound like a sewing machine. Sorry man, my condolences. When I let my car sit for a week or so w/out being started, the lifters will make a "tick" noise but then stop after a few seconds and the oil pressure gets up. Very light ticking sound though...nothing like the sound I get from my vanos cover. The latter sound sounds like the chain litteraly is slapping the guide rails. Very mechanical sounding. I'll bet my left nut that it's not your lifters making that noise.

[m3f_00poop6x_6dca3456a4]

Sorry you lost your testis, but I don't want your left nut.

[m3f_Extrav.Dre_53c7fb859e]

What the, I am listening to the file I posted and it doesn't sound nearly as good as the one I had originally. Weird, cuz I even dled to test it out but I guess it was just playing the one from my computer.



I will post the original one again, it sounds SO much more clear.



I don't think it is the lifters either, though. At least I hope not. Hopefully my tensioner will be waiting for me when I get home.

[m3f_Extrav.Dre_53c7fb859e]

Looks like I got the wrong part. The Upper is the secondary (p/n 11-31-1-738-700) while the lower is the primary (p/n 11-31-1-405-081). But I think I may just change this one out as well. I have heard many people fixing this problem with the primary tensioner. However, sometimes it will come back because the rail is also so worn. I think it is the left timing guide tension rail for crankshaft to Exhaust cam chain, p/n 11-31-1-726-503. But while I'm in there I might as well change all three.



It looks like there is no need to ever change the chain or sprocets, unless they show excessive wear, which they really shouldn't.







A thread of what I think is the same thing

Pelican Parts Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=97783&perpage=20&pagenumbe r=1)



Another good thread

BMW Car CLub Forum (http://www.bmwcarclubgb.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5103&PN=1)



I've been looking for instructions on changing all these components and can't find much of anything. Does anyone know where I can find some instructions, special tools I will need, or maybe other things I can't forget to replace while I'm in there. What level difficulty is this anyway, before I get myself in trouble.



I'll try posting on BF.C to see if anyone will know there as well.

[m3f_///sleeper_f29d08a5a4]

OOpoop6x, at least no worry of getting girls pregnant now :roll: .

[m3f_///sleeper_f29d08a5a4]

extrav., have you checked out a Bently manual? I've heard those are pretty helpful.

[m3f_00poop6x_6dca3456a4]

What would really help is if you guys can prove that it really isn't the lifters; as for my situation the tensioners don't help or fix it--the timing chain(or belt?) was also replaced and no help. Some other pulleys were replaced as well, did not resolve. Even a new VANOS was installed, no fix. They thought it was a fan or some plastic hitting in the front. The noise is still there and my warranty expired not long after all those things have been replaced....and now they say it's a different noise so it's a different problem. BMW diagnosed the problem to be the lifters! Or maybe even the valves! They say they need more time to diagnose so it'll cost me more. Kind of funny how they find out what is wrong with my car after my warranty is gone. :chair: :help: :eek2: :chair: :ratatat: :chair:



I hope you guys don't go through what I am going through, it's been almost two years so far....I hope this will end soon. I am way ahead of you guys in this and it's getting very annoying. I am getting very scared and really am thinking of just selling the car and getting a Lexus for myself. I never get problems or bad service at Lexus with the rents' car.

[m3f_Extrav.Dre_53c7fb859e]

The Bentley Manual only has a section on Timing Chain removal, looks like some pretty complicated stuff. Involves taking alot of other stuff off to get to it and I assume it is the same for the upper tensioner and guides. I think I can do it but am hesitant to just tearing stuff apart without hearing some first hand info. The Bentley manual is not always right and certainly not always clear.



00poopx6, Did the primary tensioner not help at all? I assume when they were in there they checked out the sprokets and guide rails. As was suggested to me, try locating the the sound. But if it is in the front like mine, I wouldn't think it was the HVL but not like I know much about this problem.



We will get through this, unfortunate painful process.

[m3f_///sleeper_f29d08a5a4]

I just changed my oil and it quieted the noise a little...wierd huh.



00poopx6, that's rough man. I've actually toyed with the idea of selling my M3 too, but then it slaps me, "who the hell would by a BMW with a meat-grinder noise in the front of the motor?!" Oh well. I have a dream, a dream of a day when someone will solve this damn phantom noise. Until then, I'll just have to live with it.



Extrav., sounds like options on DIY work for this ailment are pretty slim. Good luck and post what you come up with.

[m3f_00poop6x_6dca3456a4]

Extrav. - everything helped.....helped the noise die down, just like everytime I change the oil. Other than changing the oil, the tensioners helped it die down a lot, but when it came back, it came back worse(sounds like back in the days when you would ride your bike over an aluminum can to make that cool motorcycle noise that also grinds away your tire). And when the noise came back(it actually just increased because it never went away in the first place) that's when BMW said it's a different noise and will not be covered under CPO warranty or their one-year service warranty.





The noise does seem like it's coming from the front doesn't it? It's right there where the VANOS is right? You can rev the engine and feel it right there, it ticks and clicks and growls right there in the front, right? Well that's what BMW thought for a year and a half with my car. Then I brought it to a tech who used one of those stethoscopes and told me the noise is actually resonating up to the front, but it's inside of the engine....it would be 3-4 service hours to diagnose($95/hour!!!). blah! That's all he could tell me since I got everything changed out that he would've recommended to be changed. :help: :help: :help: :help:



The only problem I have right now is not the noise, BMW has a way to fix this I'm sure. It's the fact that they think they fixed the problem before by changing the tensioners, timing belt, blah blah and the noise finally died down to where you can't hear it when the hood is down. But when I came back about 2 weeks later with the noise from the same place, they say it's a different noise and it won't be covered under that warranty cause it's a whole different problem. BS anyone? :???:

[m3f_Sirius_880bd69485]

Extrav. - everything helped.....helped the noise die down, just like everytime I change the oil. Other than changing the oil, the tensioners helped it die down a lot, but when it came back, it came back worse(sounds like back in the days when you would ride your bike over an aluminum can to make that cool motorcycle noise that also grinds away your tire). And when the noise came back(it actually just increased because it never went away in the first place) that's when BMW said it's a different noise and will not be covered under CPO warranty or their one-year service warranty.





The noise does seem like it's coming from the front doesn't it? It's right there where the VANOS is right? You can rev the engine and feel it right there, it ticks and clicks and growls right there in the front, right? Well that's what BMW thought for a year and a half with my car. Then I brought it to a tech who used one of those stethoscopes and told me the noise is actually resonating up to the front, but it's inside of the engine....it would be 3-4 service hours to diagnose($95/hour!!!). blah! That's all he could tell me since I got everything changed out that he would've recommended to be changed. :help: :help: :help: :help:



The only problem I have right now is not the noise, BMW has a way to fix this I'm sure. It's the fact that they think they fixed the problem before by changing the tensioners, timing belt, blah blah and the noise finally died down to where you can't hear it when the hood is down. But when I came back about 2 weeks later with the noise from the same place, they say it's a different noise and it won't be covered under that warranty cause it's a whole different problem. BS anyone? :???:



Yeah, sounds like a load of crap to me. They are just trying not to lose their ass on it. Sooner or later someones going to find out whats wrong and shove it straight up BMWs tailpipe.

[m3f_Extrav.Dre_53c7fb859e]

I'm not understanding. If it is inside the engine, why would changing the tensioner help at all? That just doesn't make any sense.

[m3f_00poop6x_6dca3456a4]

I'm not understanding. If it is inside the engine, why would changing the tensioner help at all? That just doesn't make any sense.





Exactly! And it doesn't! That's why I've been fighting with BMW that they have been fixing the wrong part of the car the whole time! Changing out parts that won't fix it. That's why they turned around after I payed another $95 diagnostics fee and told me it was a different noise. And since my warranty is up and it's a whole different problem, it'll be $3g's.

[m3f_Extrav.Dre_53c7fb859e]

So do they Know what the problem is now?