Solid Lifter Conversion, VAC vs. Shrick

[m3f_GhostRiderM]

i've searched these forums for more info on solid lifters and while they do seem to be something you would mainly consider for FI cars I see a major price discrepency from the two main places I have seen the solid lifter kits, VAC motorsports and Schrick(through TMS)



Why is the kit about $1100 from VAC and the schrick kit from TMS about $280? What makes up the $820 difference?



And does anyone know what they mean on the TMS page about the kit requiring machining of the shims to set valve lash?





So here are the links to the respective sites.

VAC motorsports solid lifter conversion kit:

http://vacmotorsports.com/cgi-bin/view_item.pl?item_id=9



Schrick solid lifter conversion kit from TMS:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=086311700



Any help from anybody who knows about these please help. Thanks in advance.







I dont know about pros and cons to hydraulic vs. solid but at from what I've been reading(paraphrased from the TMS description) at high RPM the valves float and Hydraulic lifters keep the valve open because they think it is valve lash. Piston come ups and then you can get bent valves.



Basically it looks like upgraded valve springs and solid lifters may help to prevent valve float in a high HP/RPM situation or a mis-shift. Example would be that at 9000 RPM(not that our cars get that high) a hydraulic lifter wont be able to keep up where a solid lifter would. Again it looks like the solid lifter conversion is mainly for FI cars with lots of HP/trq that regularly see high RPM's.



This is what I've found in the research I've been doing so if anyone knows better please correct me where I am wrong.



Check the second dyno graph here and you can see the torque/HP line effected by valve float

http://www.dtmpower.net/forum/showthread.php?t=142180&highlight=valve+float



Anyways, the question still remains. Why the $800 difference?

[m3f_///sleeper_f29d08a5a4]

I would only do this if you are building a purpose built track car....this will require far more maintenance than you hydraulic lifters and I'll bet she'll be noisy as a banshy. I don't really know much about them though. It sounds like a good idea, yet you'll have to do a lot of stuff to your motor in order for it to be able to spin fast enough to actually need solid lifters (i would think).

[m3f_SG_M3_d1201712b5]

i don't know anyone running a soild lifter US motor on the streets. Why do you think you need to swap?

[m3f_GhostRiderM]

i don't know anyone running a soild lifter US motor on the streets. Why do you think you need to swap?

Seemed like good insurance against bent valves when running FI with upgraded cams. I couldnt find much info on the solid lifter vs hydraulic lifter so I welcome any info you can provide. One thing i would really like to know is if solid lifter wear on the engine faster than hydraulic and is so what parts recieve the extra wear.



Would it make more sense to just upgrade valves, valve springs, and retainers (leaving the hydraulic lifters in place)to help prevent valve float in a high RPM or over-rev situation?

[m3f_JonM3]

I was thinking about asking about the same question for a while now...

[m3f_GhostRiderM]

I was thinking about asking about the same question for a while now...

I sent schrick, VAC, and TMS an email asking about differences. If I get an answer I'll post it here.



Still would like to know pros/cons of each and what components solid lifters wear on. thx :beer:

[m3f_Drifter_23d8df4bc6]

The differance is



the TMS one you need to by how many lifters you have to how many valves you have.



but the VAC one gives you all of them in a package deal.

[m3f_GhostRiderM]

The differance is



the TMS one you need to by how many lifters you have to how many valves you have.



but the VAC one gives you all of them in a package deal.

Right, that is what it says but for the schrick kit @ $11.66 each X 6 cylinders X 4 per cylinder = $279.84, the VAC kit is $1099.95



So $1099.95 - 279.84 = $820.11



I wouldnt want to spend an extra $820 without knowing where it went so there has to be more to it than just buy each part by itself(schrick) or pay an extra $820 for them to put it all into one box for you(VAC). I dont care how good the packaging is its not worth $820. Maybe they cushion it with gold leaf and caviar and deliver it in a 7 series stretch limo, who knows :rofl2:



Not bashing you or anything I'm just curious myself what justifies the $820 for two kits that appear to do about the same thing. Hopefully VAC, TMS, or Schrick will respond to my emails we will know more about the exact differences from the manufacturers.

[m3f_SG_M3_d1201712b5]

i'm still not getting why you think hydraulic lifters are so bad? There are many more issues the m50 series motors have, rather than their lifters.



Soild lifters require regular adjustments, they wear more. But they will allow higher sustainable revs, but you will need a much more agressive cam, head work, exhaust work to even make more power with those revs.



IMO, this is a lost cause. Many club races don't even convert to solid lifters, the hydraulic lifters are proven to work.

[m3f_GhostRiderM]

I got a reply from VAC tonight. Clears things up a bit. Well explained, thanks to Tony Salloum at VAC for the quick response. Here's what he had to say:



Hi Shelton,

Our kit consists of the actual followers with lash caps and not an adapter to the original follower. We have designed our kit this way so we can keep the valve train weight down and help prevent failures. The kit Turner is offering are adapter pieces made by Schrick and we will be happy to offer those to you at a price of $11 each if you decide you like that design better. Also, always having to grind the adapter itself instead of a lash cap becomes very labor intensive. I actually just finished a conversation with another engine builder who mentioned those adapters and when I explained how they worked, he said "Heck, that defeats the purpose of going to a solid lifter and certainly seems to be more time consuming".



Sorry, but we are a real engine machine shop and only want to sell parts we fully believe in. Like I said, if you like the Schrick set up, we will be happy to supply you with it.



Let me know if I can be of further assistance.



Regards,



Tony Salloum

VAC Motorsports