AST Shocks - does anyone have first hand experience with these?

[m3f_RickO1_5a1540e0eb]

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum.



I've owned an E36 328 for about 11 years, which my oldest son drives now. I bought a really nice 98 M3/4/5 alittle over a year ago and it has been great. The PO lived in NoCal and kept it in great shape with old school maintenance and kept everything fixed on it that came up. It has just under 100k miles, but is almost flawless cosmetically.



What I would like to do is upgrade the suspension. This is not a daily driver, but mostly weekends and nice days during the week. I've been seriously thinking about an AST coilover set-up, specifically the new 4150. I know they're too new for anyone to have any experience with, but was wondering if anyone has used the 4100's? This car may see some track time, but mostly will be street driven and I don't want my wife complaining about how hard it rides. I know this is an expensive set-up, but I plan on keeping this car a long time and don't mind the extra $$. Thanks.



Rick

[m3f_jayjaya29_7ae7176fe6]

The 4100s have been cropping up with some reliability problems lately (strut to spindle hole failure, sway bar bracket failure and shock life extremely limited). The 4150s should address these problems.


4150s may be a little overkill for your application, it will ride stiffer than stock but it won't be jarring (depending on what spring rates you choose to go with).

[m3f_tbaker474_bc666181ea]

A buddy of mine has AST 4100's and he's had to send them back for repairs 3 times in two years of ownership. I hear his experience is far from unique. From what I've been told, the coilovers feel nice and work well when they aren't broken.



Vorshlag claims that the design changes on the 4150 should alleviate a lot of the reliability issues of the 4100. That very well may be the case, but I sure wouldn't want to be the test mule for that. I'd personally wait until they've been on the market for a while to see if the reliability issues have been fixed.

[m3f_RickO1_5a1540e0eb]

I'm trying to figure out how to include your responses in my response, so please forgive me for my ineptitude.



jayjaya29 - If I went this route, I would go with 450f/550r springs rates, pretty close to the softest that Vorshlag recommends. You're correct about being overkill at this time, but the 4150's are upgradeable to 2-way if I ever decided to get serious out some track time, etc. The 4150's are supposed to have the swaybar tabs welded on, so hopefully that would not be a problem.





tbaker474 - Your point on the reliability would definitely be a concern. Since this is a primarily street-driven car, I don't want to be bothered with having to rebuild the shocks on any more than an occasional basis. Did AST rebuild them under warranty, or is that a pipedream?



Thanks, Rick

[m3f_tbaker474_bc666181ea]

I'm trying to figure out how to include your responses in my response, so please forgive me for my ineptitude.



jayjaya29 - If I went this route, I would go with 450f/550r springs rates, pretty close to the softest that Vorshlag recommends. You're correct about being overkill at this time, but the 4150's are upgradeable to 2-way if I ever decided to get serious out some track time, etc. The 4150's are supposed to have the swaybar tabs welded on, so hopefully that would not be a problem.





tbaker474 - Your point on the reliability would definitely be a concern. Since this is a primarily street-driven car, I don't want to be bothered with having to rebuild the shocks on any more than an occasional basis. Did AST rebuild them under warranty, or is that a pipedream?



Thanks, Rick



Just hit the "Quote" button. If you want to quote more than one person, hit the "multi-quote" button at the bottom of each post then click reply.



Anyhow - my friend's failures weren't related to the shock blowing out. The first problem was related to the bottom strut mounting bracket which arrived bent so it wouldn't install properly. Vorshlag fixed that for him. The second two problems were related to the adjuster knobs. If I recall, something in the internal mechanism broke so the adjuster knob would spin indefinitley but not change anything inside the damper. The first time this happened, AST did fix it for him at no charge - although he had dissasemble the suspension to send back to them and missed a decent portion of the season in the interim. I don't believe the second failure was ever resolved. He was in the process of negotiating it with them when he totalled his car at Lime Rock.... after that the suspension was the least of his problems.



To be fair to AST, I don't think any of the aftermarket suspension options are as problem free as OEM (can't speak for the super expensive setups, mostly the kits in the $1800 - $2500 range.) I've heard of isolated issues with Ground Control and TCK's products as well, although these products have been on the market for quite a while so barring production defects I think most of the issues have been designed out. :twocents:

[m3f_jeremy5000_33855e23ff]

Check out the TC Kline coilovers... I have them on my car and love them.

[m3f_RickO1_5a1540e0eb]

Just hit the "Quote" button. If you want to quote more than one person, hit the "multi-quote" button at the bottom of each post then click reply.



Anyhow - my friend's failures weren't related to the shock blowing out. The first problem was related to the bottom strut mounting bracket which arrived bent so it wouldn't install properly. Vorshlag fixed that for him. The second two problems were related to the adjuster knobs. If I recall, something in the internal mechanism broke so the adjuster knob would spin indefinitley but not change anything inside the damper. The first time this happened, AST did fix it for him at no charge - although he had dissasemble the suspension to send back to them and missed a decent portion of the season in the interim. I don't believe the second failure was ever resolved. He was in the process of negotiating it with them when he totalled his car at Lime Rock.... after that the suspension was the least of his problems.



To be fair to AST, I don't think any of the aftermarket suspension options are as problem free as OEM (can't speak for the super expensive setups, mostly the kits in the $1800 - $2500 range.) I've heard of isolated issues with Ground Control and TCK's products as well, although these products have been on the market for quite a while so barring production defects I think most of the issues have been designed out. :twocents:



Thanks, write after I wrote that first reply, I saw the quote button and wondered what that was for...duh.



I was originally considering the TCK SA suspension, then started looking at the AST coilovers, somewhat due to the upgradeability of the 4150. I'll have to admit, that is probably a longshot for me. I'll check out the GC setups as well.

[m3f_RickO1_5a1540e0eb]

Check out the TC Kline coilovers... I have them on my car and love them.



Do you have the SA or DA setup? What spring rates are you running? Are they plenty comfortable for the street? I won't mind tightening things up when it's just me in the car, but when my wife goes with me I want to keep her happy. Thanks.

[m3f_Magic M3_88afc92f23]

OP: If the car is gonna spend the majority of its life on the street, I think that ASTs are prolly not the right setup for your application. While many members of this forum and others have used ASTs on the street, they are a race part that generally needs to be serviced and rebuilt more frequently than street parts. If you really want a coilover system for adjustability, the TC Kline single adjustable system is much more street friendly. When pared with their springs, the TCK system provides near OE ride quality but still can be used for substantial track use as well.


Pete


Btw: I run their SAs also. I think the spring rates are like 350/400 f to r. I am out hauling kids around but will confirm when I get home if you want. FYI: I used to have the Bilatein pss9 set up and the TCKs are light years ahead in ride quality


Pete

[m3f_RickO1_5a1540e0eb]

Pete,

Thanks for that info. If you don't mind, I would like to know what spring rates you are running. Did you also go with camber plates?

Rick

[m3f_Magic M3_88afc92f23]

Rick



No problem, I should be home in an hour or so and wil check it out. Yes, I also run their camber plates as well. They are very easy to adjust and set up. I can't say enough about the quality of products and the great service over at TCK!



Pete

[m3f_gripenM_b239ae26d4]

i've been running 4100's with the vorshlag camber plates for almost 2 years now

with no issues, and the performance gains i thought were astonishing.

(coming from H&R and koni set up)



i mostly daily drive mine with occasional track use,

spring rates at 550/650

the ride can be jarring/annoying on rougher surfaces (i'm talking 100 yr old roads and cobble stone roads)

but the ride quality going over frequent undulations on the road (small bumps like

rain grooves on an intersection) is very good,



the 4150, from what i've read is supposed to have near stock ride quality at softer settings

and very hard ride quality at the harder settings



if you're only driving the m3 on weekends and nice days, i'd highly recommend the AST's

[m3f_gripenM_b239ae26d4]

but i should also forewarn that,



the AST shocks are shortened shocks

properly installed, the car will sit much lower than what you might be used to

if you install them at higher than the proper height, the shocks will not work correctly

[m3f_Braymond14_63960d99c1]

My AST Sportline II that sat shelved for 7+ years have been great for the past 2 years. My only complaint is that there is limited travel on the rear shocks so it's always hitting the stops. Not exactly comfortable.


No issues with any end links, but mine use the threaded collar and lock nuts top/bottom.

[m3f_Magic M3_88afc92f23]

Pete,

Thanks for that info. If you don't mind, I would like to know what spring rates you are running. Did you also go with camber plates?

Rick



Rick

I just checked, I've got 350/400lb springs.