The results are in! And they’re, well..

[m3nt0s]

You had a CSL intake with stock US headers? I feel like I never see anyone do that, but as someone who is more interested in an intake than any other mods (just because I care more about the experience/drama over power #s), I was always curious why it seemed like everyone who had a CSL intake had done headers first. Are there any downsides to CSL airbox + US headers, or is it just an illogical order to do if you are after "gains"?

I’m currently running Karbonius intake with stock US header back exhaust setup. Eventually I’ll grab euro headers and section 1 as I’m already coded for it, but haven’t actually gotten the hardware yet. Wanted to make sure I had the sound I wanted and an intake that supports any potential ambition I have with power output in the car (FI does not interest me).

[Tbonem3]

Prolly weighed 10lbs

[LSBNick]

Quick update:

fuel filter definitely had a role in the fueling issue, lol

20 years and 150k miles later

[stash1]

Yes, believe the code was for a misfire due to the headers. Was addressed by HTE. Nothing related to O2 sensors though.

Ok, well report back when you get it all squared away!

[LSBNick]

OP, you def have a fueling issue to start with, whether it's the injectors, fuel pump/filter, 02 sensors, etc...you need to get that part straight before doing anything else. Do you, or have you had, any CEL's recently? Are you sure the 02's are good and in the correct locations? After you have that part squared away, perform a VANOS test (as someone else mentioned previously) to make sure everything is within range.

Yes, believe the code was for a misfire due to the headers. Was addressed by HTE. Nothing related to O2 sensors though.

[stash1]

That is the most reassuring thing I’ve heard all day lol

OP, you def have a fueling issue to start with, whether it's the injectors, fuel pump/filter, 02 sensors, etc...you need to get that part straight before doing anything else. Do you, or have you had, any CEL's recently? Are you sure the 02's are good and in the correct locations? After you have that part squared away, perform a VANOS test (as someone else mentioned previously) to make sure everything is within range.

[LSBNick]

Dynojets are very difficult (but not impossible) to fudge numbers on, and most generally don't vary more than around 2% from each other. Judging by the graph/torque figures, OP def has a mechanical issue...once he solves it powa/torque numbers will easily jump by 25-35 pts. His AFR's were lean pre-tune, but post tune, they look fine. Maybe still just a tad lean in the range you mentioned, but certainly not dangerous.

That is the most reassuring thing I’ve heard all day lol

[stash1]

I see two things. Your delta is 44whp so that is REALLY good. I'm not sure why that final number matters. It's completely arbitrary. There's a very good chance your car is not making 297whp with your set up. If it is, something is wrong. I blame the dyno for just reading low.
Another note is you are dangerously lean between 4500 and 6000. Notice that's where you had your original power dip along with hitting a 16 to 17 AFR. That is exactly how you blow up a gasoline engine. Afterwards it's not as bad but it's still quite lean. Your original lean condition may have caused damage.

Dynojets are very difficult (but not impossible) to fudge numbers on, and most generally don't vary more than around 2% from each other. Judging by the graph/torque figures, OP def has a mechanical issue...once he solves it powa/torque numbers will easily jump by 25-35 pts. His AFR's were lean pre-tune, but post tune, they look fine. Maybe still just a tad lean in the range you mentioned, but certainly not dangerous.

[ra2fanatic]

You had a CSL intake with stock US headers? I feel like I never see anyone do that, but as someone who is more interested in an intake than any other mods (just because I care more about the experience/drama over power #s), I was always curious why it seemed like everyone who had a CSL intake had done headers first. Are there any downsides to CSL airbox + US headers, or is it just an illogical order to do if you are after "gains"?

eh, I wasn't necessary into an all out whp gain. But when there's a deal from a local seller for euro headers with all the bungs set in place so you have nothing dangling about, I figured I wouldn't pass up the deal. I didn't need an extremely loud exhaust since I had sec 1-3 covered at that point anyways, but since I was doing CSL cams already, figured it was time to add the euro headers.

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

You had a CSL intake with stock US headers? I feel like I never see anyone do that, but as someone who is more interested in an intake than any other mods (just because I care more about the experience/drama over power #s), I was always curious why it seemed like everyone who had a CSL intake had done headers first. Are there any downsides to CSL airbox + US headers, or is it just an illogical order to do if you are after "gains"?

The intake compatibility is not based on the headers. But if you want to optimize your whp then the headers will be the biggest constraint.

Yes it’s cool, hell yes it’s a boatload of money, is it worth it? Ehhhh... you can get similar figures with an afe intake.

It took me a full year and too much money before my karbonious setup operated how I wanted to.


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[sina]

Your numbers are essentially what I saw w/o headers.

At the time when I made 297whp, it was stock headers, CPI rasp elim sec 1, sg section 2, and dixis ti muffler, with Evolve CSL intake race box.

after euro headers and OE CSL cams, I made 336whp.

You had a CSL intake with stock US headers? I feel like I never see anyone do that, but as someone who is more interested in an intake than any other mods (just because I care more about the experience/drama over power #s), I was always curious why it seemed like everyone who had a CSL intake had done headers first. Are there any downsides to CSL airbox + US headers, or is it just an illogical order to do if you are after "gains"?

[jbfrancis3]

Got it. It would be well worth checking the live reading before exploring other physical systems.

[LSBNick]

I went through a lean fueling issue during tuning and followed the normal paths: check fuel pump, regulator, got injectors cleaned (they didn't need it @110k original miles). None of those were the issue.

On a CSL converted DME, it turned out to be incorrect intake temp sensor readings caused by improper grounding. I had used the so-called spare ground on pin I forget on connector I forget, which clearly did not work in my application.

So check the IAT readings - if they are erratic at standstill (130F, then 40F) that's almost guaranteed to be your problem (assuming CSL software).

Car is using Alpha-N tuning. We discussed relocating the IAT sensor to the brake duct instead of its original position due to heat soak issues. Definitely something that’s going to be happening that hopefully not only prevents heat soaking, but also gives us more accurate readings.

[jbfrancis3]

I went through a lean fueling issue during tuning and followed the normal paths: check fuel pump, regulator, got injectors cleaned (they didn't need it @110k original miles). None of those were the issue.

On a CSL converted DME, it turned out to be incorrect intake temp sensor readings caused by improper grounding. I had used the so-called spare ground on pin I forget on connector I forget, which clearly did not work in my application.

So check the IAT readings - if they are erratic at standstill (130F, then 40F) that's almost guaranteed to be your problem (assuming CSL software).

[LSBNick]

I see two things. Your delta is 44whp so that is REALLY good. I'm not sure why that final number matters. It's completely arbitrary. There's a very good chance your car is not making 297whp with your set up. If it is, something is wrong. I blame the dyno for just reading low.
Another note is you are dangerously lean between 4500 and 6000. Notice that's where you had your original power dip along with hitting a 16 to 17 AFR. That is exactly how you blow up a gasoline engine. Afterwards it's not as bad but it's still quite lean. Your original lean condition may have caused damage.

For that specific reason is why I’m planning on doing a fuel system overhaul. Even after tuning to draw more fuel, Hassan said the car was still running lean, meaning there’s something bad with fuel delivery. Will be addressing these issues soon!