Matt Farah of The Smoking Tire picks up an E46 M3

[Obioban]

Ha!! Although at this point, so is the SMG... plenty of people over the years get into the car, look down and don't know what on earth to do. "Where's Park?"

maw

I still screw up turning on my own SMG car every time I get in it.
(e60 M5... which this thread has inspired me to start researching 6mt swapping it)

[jet_dogg]

Have you ever driven 80s or 90s era automatics? What are those, like rotary phones? The iPhone 3 was a game changer over your wall phone. I still remember the E38 Dinan 7 -- loved everything about the car except the transmission, which was terraasshh. Same with the original 8 series. 540i M Touring, great car with a Tiptronic even... best ever at the time but the SMG kills it for dead before it's even born. I'm not kidding about the 540i M Touring -- I remember it driving about like my Audi Allroad 4.2 with Tiptronic, which I'll NEVER sell. I might give it to my son, but it's just not for sale. Great car, great transmission, SMG kills it.

I'll take the SMG over any automatic transmission before dual clutch, some of the best of which I own -- MB, MB AMG, Porsche, Audi, VW, any of them.

The fact of the matter is the late SMG transmissions in these cars beat everything in that era except a manual, and it beat most of those. Full stop.

That's a classic Forumland comment. It's cute but it's just not real, IMO.

maw

In that era. Couldn't have said it better myself, except I did and you just confirmed it.

Most people should never have bought this car in coupe version nor have modified it since they've never set foot, let along driven, on a track in their life. BBK on a street car driven in city traffic? How does that make sense? Carbon fiber air box for thousands so you can hear some disturbances in the air? Carbon fiber exterior mods to save 10 lbs on the street? Wheels for 4 to 10k? CSL trunk so you can pretend you own a real CSL? Everything about cars is silly depending on the perspective unless you are the 2% that actually drives the car on a track with regularity.

Ultimately, there is a customer for anything.

Re the mods: everything you mentioned is an improvement over stock, but I agree about the trunk. Interesting that you made no mention of superchargers, though.

[maw1124]

Exactly. Not only, as a bonus, manual gear boxes are becoming a very good theft deterrent.

Ha!! Although at this point, so is the SMG... plenty of people over the years get into the car, look down and don't know what on earth to do. "Where's Park?"

maw

[Jimbo's M]

the more manuals disappear from new cars, the more people will want them in classic cars.

Exactly. Not only, as a bonus, manual gear boxes are becoming a very good theft deterrent.

[oceansize]

They probably should’ve never bothered with a cab version and smg is like the iphone 3 of automatic gearboxes.

Most people should never have bought this car in coupe version nor have modified it since they've never set foot, let alone driven, on a track in their life. BBK on a street car driven in city traffic? How does that make sense? Carbon fiber air box for thousands so you can hear some disturbances in the air? Carbon fiber exterior mods to save 10 lbs on the street? Wheels for 4 to 10k? CSL trunk so you can pretend you own a real CSL? Everything about cars is silly depending on the perspective unless you are the 2% that actually drives the car on a track with regularity.

[maw1124]

...and smg is like the iphone 3 of automatic gearboxes.

Have you ever driven 80s or 90s era automatics? What are those, like rotary phones? The iPhone 3 was a game changer over your wall phone. I still remember the E38 Dinan 7 -- loved everything about the car except the transmission, which was terraasshh. Same with the original 8 series. 540i M Touring, great car with a Tiptronic even... best ever at the time but the SMG kills it for dead before it's even born. I'm not kidding about the 540i M Touring -- I remember it driving about like my Audi Allroad 4.2 with Tiptronic, which I'll NEVER sell. I might give it to my son, but it's just not for sale. Great car, great transmission, SMG kills it. Though I have wished it had an SMG in it -- then it would be SPECIAL!

I'll take the SMG over any automatic transmission before dual clutch, some of the best of which I own -- MB, MB AMG, Porsche, Audi, VW, any of them.

The fact of the matter is the late SMG transmissions in these cars beat everything in that era except a manual, and it beat most of those. Full stop.

That's a classic Forumland comment. It's cute but it's just not real, IMO.

maw

[Obioban]

e39 M5 had the same engine world wide, so no ROW engine to compare to.

... but it's about as much of an M engine as the S52 is.

[maw1124]

It's funny how people pick on the e36 M3 for not having a real M engine, but not the e39. 75 hp/L for the s52, 79 hp/L for the S62, both have 7000rpm redlines, both have hydraulic lifters...

... though my S50B32 e36 engine was way better than my S52 e36 engine-- they aren't wrong :P

That might be another "M Bubble" thing. I didn't even know that. And I don't get the sense most other people do either. I've never even heard anyone else say that, whereas I hear all kinds of people (car people, fans, mechanics, etc) talking E36 stuff. For me, I generally blame the USEPA (tire pressure monitors, anyone?) for the general detuning, but I guess you're right, as long as the engine code starts with an "S" why should people care? For me, the answer was the S54 ... "yeah but that one's better... they put all they had into that one and then gave up and went to a V8."

maw

[Obioban]

I think that's probably right... but to my mind it's a BMW thing... just like 997s will sell for more than 996s, largely for reasons only Porsche purists will understand or care about... I guess that's why I didn't see it coming and still don't quite "feel" that "thing" as much as some others... I will point out that Porsche purists didn't understand the 928 cars either, and now almost everyone who's not a Porsche purist wants one... SMG verts will probably be this car's analogy to that... BMW purists also diss the Z8, and we see how that's going.

So these bubbles can be interesting and wrong, which is why I have to keep my eye on what matters in forumland vs what matters elsewhere. You pick up some interesting differences if you pay attention. Hell, I'm guilty of dissing the E36M cars for not having a "real" M engine. But for every one of me there are 10 guys who absolutely don't care about that purist inclination and will argue all day and night that the E36M is the best M3 ever (huh?!?!). And they might be right...

maw

It's funny how people pick on the e36 M3 for not having a real M engine, but not the e39. 75 hp/L for the s52, 79 hp/L for the S62, both have 7000rpm redlines, both have hydraulic lifters...

... though my S50B32 e36 engine was way better than my S52 e36 engine-- they aren't wrong :P

[jet_dogg]

Value wise, I'd expect 6mt coupes to remain ahead. e30 and e36 M3 verts are worth less than non verts, and the more manuals disappear from new cars, the more people will want them in classic cars.

They probably should’ve never bothered with a cab version and smg is like the iphone 3 of automatic gearboxes.

[maw1124]

Value wise, I'd expect 6mt coupes to remain ahead. e30 and e36 M3 verts are worth less than non verts, and the more manuals disappear from new cars, the more people will want them in classic cars.

I think that's probably right... but to my mind it's a BMW thing... just like 997s will sell for more than 996s, largely for reasons only Porsche purists will understand or care about... I guess that's why I didn't see it coming and still don't quite "feel" that "thing" as much as some others... I will point out that Porsche purists didn't understand the 928 cars either, and now almost everyone who's not a Porsche purist wants one... SMG verts will probably be this car's analogy to that... BMW purists also diss the Z8, and we see how that's going.

So these bubbles can be interesting and wrong, which is why I have to keep my eye on what matters in forumland vs what matters elsewhere. You pick up some interesting differences if you pay attention. Hell, I'm guilty of dissing the E36M cars for not having a "real" M engine. But for every one of me there are 10 guys who absolutely don't care about that purist inclination and will argue all day and night that the E36M is the best M3 ever (huh?!?!). And they might be right...

maw

[Obioban]

Again, I think that's just people in forumland. I don't encounter that reaction anywhere EXCEPT forumland... and BMW forums only, actually. Outside of the BMW E46M bubble (way more people outside than in) results are much more mixed. It's sort of like the Porsche purists who diss the 996... that's only them, the rest of the world understands but really doesn't care -- they just see a less expensive 911... they wave that shit off like "yeah but I'm not a Porsche purist, so..." But as Sir Charles Barkley once famously said, "I could be wrong, but I doubt it."

maw

EDIT... come to think of it, that's how I did this car... there were rumblings back then about 6MT Coupes and I was like "they can have that shit, that car needs to be convertible and I'm not driving a stick shift again."

Value wise, I'd expect 6mt coupes to remain ahead. e30 and e36 M3 verts are worth less than non verts, and the more manuals disappear from new cars, the more people will want them in classic cars.

[maw1124]

The reality is not many people like convertibles so they will never appreciate like coupes (in addition to looking/handling worse). The manual argument is not hard to understand either.

Again, I think that's just people in forumland. I don't encounter that reaction anywhere EXCEPT forumland... and BMW forums only, actually. Outside of the BMW E46M bubble (way more people outside than in) results are much more mixed. It's sort of like the Porsche purists who diss the 996... that's only them, the rest of the world understands but really doesn't care -- they just see a less expensive 911... they wave that shit off like "yeah but I'm not a Porsche purist, so..." But as Sir Charles Barkley once famously said, "I could be wrong, but I doubt it."

maw

EDIT... come to think of it, that's how I did this car... there were rumblings back then about 6MT Coupes and I was like "they can have that shit, that car needs to be convertible and I'm not driving a stick shift again."

[jet_dogg]

You should go to the meet on sunday just to hang with chris while he's in town.

I mean, I predicted it too before I bought mine in 2010. That one was kind of easy to see coming. And given the fairly limited color options on deck (skip over the Black and Dove interiors, everyone), it wasn't hard to predict which colors would command premiums either.

What I didn't see coming was: (1) all the drop top hate (which I think is just forumland and temporary), which goes against virtually everything (design aesthetic and historical precedent); and (2) the huge 6MT premium, which I think is also just forumland but maybe not as temporary.

But that the last high revving straight six engine from the Motorsport division of the company that made its name on high revving straight six engines, after they tweaked it for as long as they could extracting from it the maximum reasonably reliable output they could, would go on to be a historical car that people would be rewarded for treating as such? Well, Ray Charles could see that one coming, internet or not.

maw

EDIT... once I saw 200k mile cars out there, my decision was made and I just needed to decide on color.

The reality is not many people like convertibles so they will never appreciate like coupes (in addition to looking/handling worse). The manual argument is not hard to understand either.

[Tbonem3]

I forgot, he did kind of act a little high and mighty about the low mileage and condition of the car like, "have you ever seen such a mint car?" So I made a wise crack that he should see mine (180k miles). He blew me off