S54 Stroker build

[ethan]

What is the budget? The DINAN Carbahn 3.3L stroker kit can be had for the ultra low price of 13-15k - https://carbahnautoworks.com/product...ngine-rebuild/

I have not seen many full rebuilds work out well honestly. From memory, Dafoe on M3F had a pretty extensive S54 build with a bunch of coated parts and I believe it had some issue with valve stem seals. And it might have ruined a set of Schrick cams. There was no conclusion to that build. There were also a few other M3F forum members with extensive builds where the threads stopped after a major issue.

I feel like a refreshed stock S54 with cams, csl intake and a full stepped SS exhaust is a great, reliable solution versus building out the internals with a bunch of aftermarket parts. The refreshed setup should get to the ~375whp mark on pump gas.

This. Engine building is always treacherous, and the farther you stray from OE the more can and will go wrong:

https://ethan-public-photos.s3.amazonaws.com/build_thread/engine/failure/1.mp4

But these are S54s and S54 owners we're talking about here. If we were pragmatic, we'd probably own ZHPs.

[Slideways]

What is the budget? The DINAN Carbahn 3.3L stroker kit can be had for the ultra low price of 13-15k - https://carbahnautoworks.com/product...ngine-rebuild/

I have not seen many full rebuilds work out well honestly. From memory, Dafoe on M3F had a pretty extensive S54 build with a bunch of coated parts and I believe it had some issue with valve stem seals. And it might have ruined a set of Schrick cams. There was no conclusion to that build. There were also a few other M3F forum members with extensive builds where the threads stopped after a major issue.

I feel like a refreshed stock S54 with cams, csl intake and a full stepped SS exhaust is a great, reliable solution versus building out the internals with a bunch of aftermarket parts. The refreshed setup should get to the ~375whp mark on pump gas.

[Nugs]

I know a local e46 M3 race car made 400rwhp.
Don't know too much about the build except it has a VAC stroker kit, motec and runs e85.

[M/Anthony]

In the case of valves, would going Inconel be the best way? I know Ferrea is a well-reputed brand, but how does Supertech fare as well? I'm assuming that stainless steel is the best way to go and not titanium? Would it make sense to have a different valve material for the exhaust side to handle heat better? Finally, oversized valves?

[M/Anthony]

Yeah, anyone can have up to 7 different tunes they can swap between on the fly using mssmapper.

Is it just software that hosts maps, you plug into the OBDII port select map and go pretty much?

[01M3Fan]

Drop the guys at Turner Motorsports Service a line - I know they've done several S54 strokers.

[Obioban]

Yeah, anyone can have up to 7 different tunes they can swap between on the fly using mssmapper.

[heinzboehmer]

Those cams will run just fine, and if tuned properly, you won't notice any drivability difference vs. stock. Yes, you could do a 'valet' tune for street driving and a race tune for track only...or just try to keep your foot out of it on the street. I'm not sure who's doing 'switchable' tunes on the stock DME currently? I believe that Nick was/is, but not 100% sure anymore. I'm sure other tuners could pull it off, but it would be easier w/a stand-alone system.

Looks like MSSMapper will allow you to do this.

[stash1]

I've heard a while back about Supertech valves failing, which made me very hesitant to look at them, but I've seen a couple of more people run them and more positive reviews since they re-spec'd them. How hard is it to drive with 304/296 ( I haven't seen anyone review them)?Does anybody know or have any experience with CAT CAMS, I know Schrick is very good, I don't want to worry about anything going wrong with my camshafts. yeah, based on Mike's build, that's why I believe this build is very much possible. Would it make more sense to have like a street and track tune, so I can just reflash the DME? basically I'll run lower RPMs and a more mild tune on the street since I want to increase my Redline to 9k. Then just flash a sperate track tune and run race gas or whatever else is needed to support that? I plan to have a carbon intake that runs from the kidney grills so I would definitely have the airflow, I may just get bored out throttle bodies as well. Thanks,

Anthony

Those cams will run just fine, and if tuned properly, you won't notice any drivability difference vs. stock. Yes, you could do a 'valet' tune for street driving and a race tune for track only...or just try to keep your foot out of it on the street. I'm not sure who's doing 'switchable' tunes on the stock DME currently? I believe that Nick was/is, but not 100% sure anymore. I'm sure other tuners could pull it off, but it would be easier w/a stand-alone system.

[M/Anthony]

CAT Cams are a fine option as well, and yes, I would recommend running the larger CAT cams...if you go w/them. You might be able to get there w/the 288/280's, but it would just be easier w/the larger cams. Ehh, 500 BHP equates to roughly 425-ish WHP (based on a 15% drivetrain loss), and is probably only attainable by running a stroker w/monster comp., big boy cams, stand-alone ECU, and race fuel. IIRC Mike has 'large' Crower custom cams, and could easily break 400 WHP w/the right exhaust set up/fuel/tuning. Yes, ST = Supertech. They had a problem w/their titanium retainers yrs. ago, but have since re-spec'd them...and now they also offer that shim conversion kit as well...which should essentially bullet-proof the valvetrain.

I've heard a while back about Supertech valves failing, which made me very hesitant to look at them, but I've seen a couple of more people run them and more positive reviews since they re-spec'd them. How hard is it to drive with 304/296 ( I haven't seen anyone review them)?Does anybody know or have any experience with CAT CAMS, I know Schrick is very good, I don't want to worry about anything going wrong with my camshafts. yeah, based on Mike's build, that's why I believe this build is very much possible. Would it make more sense to have like a street and track tune, so I can just reflash the DME? basically I'll run lower RPMs and a more mild tune on the street since I want to increase my Redline to 9k. Then just flash a sperate track tune and run race gas or whatever else is needed to support that? I plan to have a carbon intake that runs from the kidney grills so I would definitely have the airflow, I may just get bored out throttle bodies as well. Thanks,

Anthony

[stash1]

Yes, there are a couple of machine shops (HMB Motorwerks- great guys really helpful did a $5k Vanos job for the S54 and it worked out well if anyone is in the Norcal area I suggest them as a good mechanic shop). I would be ok sending it out to an engine builder as I do not have the tools or skills necessary. That is why I saw the CAT Cams that ran 304/296 with 13.75mm and 13mm lift, would this be more beneficial to run in my setup as they have less lift? I saw a forum where VAC mentioned a 54 could get 500bhp, I've also seen Mike Cottter's build with similar spec (3.4L pump gas) and VANOS retained with slightly less cams than 304/296 run 391 rwhp and I forgot what torq but still very high. Yes, I've been trying to research this striker for months now and I can't really get anywhere due to the lack of information there is on stroker builds, which also encourages me to do one. By ST do you mean Supertech? If so they are very good with S54 vaalvers and I was considering adding them to my build, will look more intio. And I will give those gusy a call, one day on here has been more beenfical to motnhs on old forums and stuff, Thank you guys very much. Dont worry I will be tryuing to contiune this post with buikding the engine, results, dynos, etcs SInce noone ever reeally does big s54 builds. If there is anyone else that I shoudl talk to let me know as I still need to learn a lot.

CAT Cams are a fine option as well, and yes, I would recommend running the larger CAT cams...if you go w/them. You might be able to get there w/the 288/280's, but it would just be easier w/the larger cams. Ehh, 500 BHP equates to roughly 425-ish WHP (based on a 15% drivetrain loss), and is probably only attainable by running a stroker w/monster comp., big boy cams, stand-alone ECU, and race fuel. IIRC Mike has 'large' Crower custom cams, and could easily break 400 WHP w/the right exhaust set up/fuel/tuning. Yes, ST = Supertech. They had a problem w/their titanium retainers yrs. ago, but have since re-spec'd them...and now they also offer that shim conversion kit as well...which should essentially bullet-proof the valvetrain.

[M/Anthony]

Have you considered contacting Lang Racing Development? They are highly regarded and offer S54 stroker kits and components.

Jesse

I'll shoot them an email today, and the other guys mentioned.

[M/Anthony]

Lang Racing does different stages of head work for your lighter components. You do know this engine is not going to last very long right? What you're wanting is going to cost ALOT of money and reliability is going to be gone.

For compression ratios, I believe once you get to 12.5:1 compression 93 octane isn't going to cut it. You will need to convert to race fuel or by that true E85 online. Look up what a lot of chevy drag racing guys use for fuel.

Bore size can be machined out from 87mm to 87.5mm but not beyond that as there won't be enough metal between the cylinders so it's basically going to be all stroke.

I would look into a standalone ECU that will actually show live data and whatnot for something so high performance. If you don't have a good tuner, this engine will probably blow up quickly.

I don't race cars but this is the information I've pieced together over time from research and school. If I'm not mistaken, 296/288 would be too aggressive to maintain the vanos. The vanos can only advance timing so much and once you start adding so much duration in, advancing becomes difficult. A valve could hit a piston much easier.

Lightening up valvetrain components significantly decreases durability. Titanium parts are crazy light but aren't as durable. Valve shims might start flying if you rev too high as well.

I want to see you succeed at this because N/A engines are quite superior when engineered right. They tend to be more efficient even if they don't put out more power.

I have 400rwhp as a goal because I want to see how far I can actually get with this engine, as I believe there is a lot fo potential In it. I believe 14mm lift can still retain vanos, somebody confirms? I have no intention of building it or anything but, I've seen many 3.4, 3.5, and 3.7L S54 variants out there, and I would ideally sleeve it in case anything happens to the actual block itself. What would be the ideal valvetrain components in that case, because iv seen the s54 make power in the 8100-8300 range when stroked, reliability is very big with this project making sure the engine can go around the city for an hour then hit the track and me not having to worry about it blowing up. I am new to this so I apologize for the next comment but, wouldn't upgrading to stainless steel or titanium be stringer than oem? Doesn't the CSL run 1mm bigger exhaust valves while retaining VANOS? I will try and lighten up the drivetrain( Billett Crank, lighter clutch, and carbon driveshaft) to free up lost HP. Yes, the overengineered naturally aspirated engines are the best engines IMO and I want to encourage S54 owners that not only is building an s54 fun but also really nice when done right. That's why I hope this thread goes on for a while and doesn't die out, as there will be lots of info. And if anybody knows of any tuner, that would be great, I know HTE Performace does great tunes (280/272 cams 3.2L and like 38x something rwhp naturally aspirated) but I do need to a tuner that would adapt to such needs. I think the stock ecu will be fine because I still need it to manage everything else in my car (anybody confirm?).

Anthony

[M/Anthony]

No, you're mistaken, it's entirely possible to run big boy cams in an S54...and retain VANOS. The Schrick cams that you're both referencing are actually 304/296 duration specs, and it's actually more the lift than duration that gets you into trouble. Both the 288/280 and 304/296 are available in high lift versions (14mm), and this is where you could possibly run into trouble and would need to double check piston-to-valve clearances. At this level though, most folks would be running custom aftermarket pistons, and they can be designed w/custom reliefs in the piston tops to account for the higher lift cams. Even an 'off the shelf' piston could have deeper reliefs machined into the top to accommodate higher lift cams.

Also, I believe that ST has developed a shim conversion kit that all but eliminates the worry of spitting shims out. Mike @ MaxPSI ran this set up successfully in his turbo car. OP, sounds like it could be an epic build, but I would encourage you to do more research on part selection and maybe talk to the folks over at Partee racing. I've read about a few of their recent S54 builds, and they could be a good source of info as well. Also, maybe try contacting Matt Coyne @ Coyne Performance as he has a lot of experience building S54's as well. GL!

EDIT: OP, to answer a couple of your other questions:

!. I believe that you can make 400WHP keeping it a 3.2, but of course stroking it would add a little bit more HP and more importantly-torque...which these engines can certainly use!.
2. I think that you will need to bump comp. ratio to either 12.0:1 or 12.5:1 to achieve your 400WHP goal. Anything above 13.0:1 is probably unnecessary, and would most certainly require a steady diet of either race fuel or E85/100.

Yes, there are a couple of machine shops (HMB Motorwerks- great guys really helpful did a Vanos job for the S54 and it worked out well if anyone is in the Norcal area I suggest them as a good mechanic shop). I would be ok sending it out to an engine builder as I do not have the tools or skills necessary. That is why I saw the CAT Cams that ran 304/296 with 13.75mm and 13mm lift, would this be more beneficial to run in my setup as they have less lift? I saw a forum where VAC mentioned a 54 could get 500bhp, I've also seen Mike Cottter's build with a similar spec (3.4L pump gas) and VANOS retained with slightly less cams than 304/296 run 391 rwhp and I forgot what torq but still very high. Yes, I've been trying to research this striker for months now and I can't really get anywhere due to the lack of information there is on stroker builds, which also encourages me to do one. Im expecting to replace every component of my engine and going custom pistons to achieve this goal is ok, but Id rather try and buy readily available pistons. By ST do you mean Supertech? If so they are very good with S54 valves and I was considering adding them to my build, will look more into. And I will give those guys a call, one day on here has been more beneficial to months on old forums and stuff, Thank you guys very much. Don't worry I will be trying to continue this post with building the engine, results, dynos, etcs SInce no one ever really does big s54 builds. If there is anyone else that I should talk to let me know as I still need to learn a lot.

Anthony

[M/Anthony]

When you do get around to building, please document it! Very interested in seeing this build and your justification on parts you're using

Yes. This weekend I will start a blog/journal on it. however, I only have the block so I won't post much but once the engine is built that's when we'll get the other m3. It will be a very long journal as I have many plans and eventually widebody down the road. I'm happy the new forum got set up so I can do a journal. It should be great indeed! (dream car)