Trying to decide: e46 M3 vs F82 M4 vs 997.2

[Tonggi]

Can the C2S be as fun on the street as the e46 M3?

Another point of comparison here, the steering in my e39 M5 feels more enjoyable to me the M3 did. I love being able to change the weight in sport mode, but I honestly prefer the lighter weight because I have shoulder issues. The on center feel is infinitely better and seems more connected. If I moved the wheel even a few mm I could feel the car start to change direction whereas the M3 I could hardly tell the wheel was doing anything.

sorry I just saw this now. The porsche I think is more fun around the street since its more of a street car and doesn't have to be winded up to get the power. I think how both cars are set it up they are similar in speed. The 997.2 stock for stock is def faster than the M3 and both are comfortable enough.

The Porsche is definitely more cockpit feeling, driver focused. I'm a bit biased but I love both cars. I use the porsche more for daily use since I dont have buckets and its quieter.

[t44tq]

I said multiple times I drove a GR86 and I liked how it drove. Not many new cars under 2,900 pounds that fit my criteria. I am still considering picking up a 996 or 997 in the future, though, as I did really like the 997. The only thing is the auto is definitely kind of a bummer in the 996 which is why I wanted the 997 with the PDK.

I know that the transmissions in the "regular" 996 and the turbo are different (ZF vs Mercedes, respectively), but in contemporary accounts, the 996 turbo tiptronic yielded faster lap times for the vast majority of drivers than the manual version. That was Hurley Haywood's recounting- if you don't know who he is, he is a veteran champion of Porsche racing for decades, a very talented driver.

I think a GR86 with a power adder would be a ton of fun. New car makes it a difficult thing to accomplish- you didn't say that originally.

[Icecream]

Just saw this, had no idea Harris had one
Chris Harris On His BMW M2 CS - YouTube

[Phoenix///M3]

Nice ride. We have a similar m2 comp that shows up at local cars and coffee and I like it in person.


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[usdmej]

At no point did I ask other people's opinions on the looks because that's subjective.

I asked people's opinions about comparing the cars objectively so I could decide what might be interesting before buying. And then I made a decision and bought one.

I guess it's not obvious enough, but "you bought an ugly car" is kind of a dick thing to say unsolicited.

realistically probably too much of an ask to keep things objective especially when talking car preference. with a potentials list as broad as yours it'll always be hard to reign in what you feel is helpful.

congrats on the car purchase

[Aeko]

Don't mind these guys, it's even getting hard for me to stomach some of the e46 M3 snobbery here lol. And an auto 996 is akin to playing the harp with a toilet brush so not surprised that was not on the table. Anyway, congrats on the car, they are really tempting...

Yep, I feel that. And LOL that's quite the mental image, but you definitely get the point. Thank you!

Yeah, I did say that it was going to come down to whichever of those I found first.

[Icecream]

At no point did I ask other people's opinions on the looks because that's subjective.

I asked people's opinions about comparing the cars objectively so I could decide what might be interesting before buying. And then I made a decision and bought one.

I guess it's not obvious enough, but "you bought an ugly car" is kind of a dick thing to say unsolicited.

I said multiple times I drove a GR86 and I liked how it drove. Not many new cars under 2,900 pounds that fit my criteria. I am still considering picking up a 996 or 997 in the future, though, as I did really like the 997. The only thing is the auto is definitely kind of a bummer in the 996 which is why I wanted the 997 with the PDK.

This is a fair point, a lot of reviews I watched stated it as being "connected". Kind of like, you just think where you want to point the car and it goes. Relies a bit more on intuition rather than feeling what it's doing, almost like sim racing.

Don't mind these guys, it's even getting hard for me to stomach some of the e46 M3 snobbery here lol. And an auto 996 is akin to playing the harp with a toilet brush so not surprised that was not on the table. Anyway, congrats on the car, they are really tempting...

[Aeko]

you've been soliciting people's car opinions so, you're gonna get some?

it doesn't help that the M2 or any F87 has always been a particularly unattractive vehicle (imo)

great car objectively tho

At no point did I ask other people's opinions on the looks because that's subjective.

I asked people's opinions about comparing the cars objectively so I could decide what might be interesting before buying. And then I made a decision and bought one.

I guess it's not obvious enough, but "you bought an ugly car" is kind of a dick thing to say unsolicited.

You never looked at a lighter car, so you missed out- drive a '99 996 (doesn't matter if it's auto or manual) which comes in around 2900 lbs.- the fact that most of the weight is in the back and you're running relatively skinny tires up front make for a really nice driving experience. Sharpen up things with a better alignment, better tires and better dampers and you see how the GT3s are so great.

I said multiple times I drove a GR86 and I liked how it drove. Not many new cars under 2,900 pounds that fit my criteria. I am still considering picking up a 996 or 997 in the future, though, as I did really like the 997. The only thing is the auto is definitely kind of a bummer in the 996 which is why I wanted the 997 with the PDK.

All true – though at least some in the industry has figured out how to get some feedback out of EPS even with wide-ish tires, so I feel like BMW also earns some blame for not implementing any solutions.

I've noticed that modern BMWs respond so intuitively in so many situations that they don't feel as disconnected as I expect them to given the lack of steering feedback. I wonder if they feel like that's an excuse to drop (or deprecate) steering feedback.

This is a fair point, a lot of reviews I watched stated it as being "connected". Kind of like, you just think where you want to point the car and it goes. Relies a bit more on intuition rather than feeling what it's doing, almost like sim racing.

[heinzboehmer]

The F80 and F87 basically weigh the same as well.

Hmm, so maybe not. I'm clearly not very well informed about the newer gen BMWs lol

[IamFODI]

The steering feels numb because:
a. It's electric power assist, which doesn't have nearly as much feedback as hydraulic assist.
b. The front tires are 245mm wide, which doesn't help. I went from 225 to 265 on the front of my M3 and it really dulled the steering feel. The wider you go, the worse it is, which takes us to-
c. The car is a heavy pig at 3600 lbs.- you need more tire when the car is that heavy, so unless BMW wakes up and goes Lotus on us, the cars will just continue to get duller and heavier with each progressive generation.

All true – though at least some in the industry has figured out how to get some feedback out of EPS even with wide-ish tires, so I feel like BMW also earns some blame for not implementing any solutions.

I've noticed that modern BMWs respond so intuitively in so many situations that they don't feel as disconnected as I expect them to given the lack of steering feedback. I wonder if they feel like that's an excuse to drop (or deprecate) steering feedback.

[t44tq]

Even with the M2 Comp being 3600 it really does not feel like it in the least but its still pushing it. I was surprised to learn that after I test drove the first one about two weeks ago. It handles like it's 500 pounds lighter than it really is, which may explain why the EPS feels numb as a result of having to assist the steering and front end setup to make it agile at the cost of feedback.

The steering feels numb because:
a. It's electric power assist, which doesn't have nearly as much feedback as hydraulic assist.
b. The front tires are 245mm wide, which doesn't help. I went from 225 to 265 on the front of my M3 and it really dulled the steering feel. The wider you go, the worse it is, which takes us to-
c. The car is a heavy pig at 3600 lbs.- you need more tire when the car is that heavy, so unless BMW wakes up and goes Lotus on us, the cars will just continue to get duller and heavier with each progressive generation.

You never looked at a lighter car, so you missed out- drive a '99 996 (doesn't matter if it's auto or manual) which comes in around 2900 lbs.- the fact that most of the weight is in the back and you're running relatively skinny tires up front make for a really nice driving experience. Sharpen up things with a better alignment, better tires and better dampers and you see how the GT3s are so great.

[EthanolTurbo]

Weight is basically the same as the G80. Makes me wonder if it's just a G80 with a different body.

The F80 and F87 basically weigh the same as well.

[usdmej]

Not really sure what the point of this comment is, feels like you're trying to rain on my parade?

you've been soliciting people's car opinions so, you're gonna get some?

it doesn't help that the M2 or any F87 has always been a particularly unattractive vehicle (imo)

great car objectively tho

[Aeko]

I didn't get the part about having three pedals in an automatic swapped car- that YT video was incomprehensible to me, sorry.

Understandable, I guess it didn't make sense out of context. But, to anyone following this thread; the gist of it is Turbolamik makes a ZF8 controller which allows you to use a sensor for a clutch pedal which lets you disengage or slip the clutch packs similar to a traditional manual transmission. But you can switch it to a mode where it's fully auto when if/when you don't want to use the clutch. Best of both worlds, ideally. Clutch kicks, burnouts, super fast shifts and still can cruise in traffic stop and go traffic without needing to clutch in.

Gotta see it in person. Current M2 doesn't look great in photos but in person I think they look pretty good, especially in comp trim. Bet the new one does to. However, the bigger story here is the 3800+ curb weight they quoted. How is that possible? That's more than the e92 and e63.

Yeah, imo it's not as bad as some of the other offerings, but I basically don't like any of the G series cars. Not sure where they're going with the styling at all. I don't even want to get started on the XM and it's marketing wank.

Even with the M2 Comp being 3600 it really does not feel like it in the least but its still pushing it. I was surprised to learn that after I test drove the first one about two weeks ago. It handles like it's 500 pounds lighter than it really is, which may explain why the EPS feels numb as a result of having to assist the steering and front end setup to make it agile at the cost of feedback.

I'm really surprised how readily the M2C rotates in a corner and once it does it almost accelerates how fast it rotates, it really wants to move the back end around.

[heinzboehmer]

Gotta see it in person. Current M2 doesn't look great in photos but in person I think they look pretty good, especially in comp trim. Bet the new one does to. However, the bigger story here is the 3800+ curb weight they quoted. How is that possible? That's more than the e92 and e63.

Weight is basically the same as the G80. Makes me wonder if it's just a G80 with a different body.