Trying to decide: e46 M3 vs F82 M4 vs 997.2

[IamFODI]

997 - This is one of the few cars from this thread that I still think back to and wish I could drive it again on a consistent basis. I think that speaks enough for itself. The biggest issue is whether I can stomach the price for what it offers.

What more do you want from a car than making you wish you could drive it? If that isn't worth money, what is?

[Boost]

It's the opposite, F80s seem rock solid from what I've gathered. F10, F30, and F80 all seem to be highly reliable.

Haven't heard bad things about the F80s either, aside from the crank hubs. However they are 2 generations newer, so perhaps in 5-10 years and more 6-digit mileage examples, more things will surface.

[EthanolTurbo]

How much better is the F8X on maintenance / reliability? I am in a similar situation as the OP as of this afternoon, but had assumed like most BMWs the newest generation was yet another step up in terms of ongoing maintenance / repair costs compared to an E9X

It's the opposite, F80s seem rock solid from what I've gathered. F10, F30, and F80 all seem to be highly reliable.

[Aeko]

Final verdict (for now):

I'm either going to buy something M2, M3, or 997, depending on what comes up first with the color, price, miles, and condition meeting what I would like. I'll explain more in a bit.

Recent drives:
135i - The driving experience overall does seem to live up to the hype. Steering felt really nice, not too heavy. The interior quality was a letdown for me though, it didn't really feel all that special. It was a 2013 and said it was DCT but something was up either with the transmission programming or the throttle pedal sensor because the car didn't want to move until it was at almost half throttle, then it would jump forward like you'd expect from half throttle. It didn't feel super fast after driving the M2. I feel like it would be a good canvas for a track beater build.

M2 Competition - Really great car, suffered the same kind of borderline sterile driving experience as the M4. It seemed more fun because the car was smaller and more nimble, but overall at road speeds it just wasn't that exciting.

M240i xDrive - The only M240i near me, so I gave it a shot. I feel like the M240i sits right between the OGM2 and M2C in terms of how powerful, refined, and capable it feels. The OGM2 I drove felt like it leaned a lot more in corners than the M240i. The M240i feels like it is what the OGM2's LCI should have been, specifically with the adjustable dampers. Interestingly the B58 in the M240i almost feels more special than the N55. I can't really describe why, though.

I still want to drive a Supra even though I'm pretty turned off by the looks and interior, just because it does seem to be a benchmark against literally every other car I've driven in the last two weeks.


As for my picks, I'll explain the subjective reasons why I like them starting with the 997.

997 - This is one of the few cars from this thread that I still think back to and wish I could drive it again on a consistent basis. I think that speaks enough for itself. The biggest issue is whether I can stomach the price for what it offers.

M2(40i)/C - I really like what these cars offers on paper, I like driving them, but I'm not in love with them... yet. I think I'd need at least a couple months and a weekend on back roads to figure that out. I felt the same way about my E46 M3. I was excited about it but I didn't really fall in love with it until I owned it and really drove the crap out of it. Also, Long Beach Blue is literally my second favorite BMW color, behind Snapper Rocks blue. The overall steering feel of the EPS is kind of a letdown, BUT it is easier for me to drive.

E92 M3 - Similar story above, but I already know I love the drivetrain. The S65 and DCT is glorious. I'm just personally not in love with the looks or interior styling (funny enough I like how they executed the interior in the M2 even though it's very similar.) I need time with an example that isn't broken to make a call on it though. I did sit in a second E9x M3 and the power steering was working properly in that car, so I know it was broken in the first one I drove.

It's possible I'll wind up back in an E46 M3 by serendipity, but I've had almost 5 years with them and there's just so many other cars I want to own.

If I drive any other interesting things or make a notable discovery (or purchase) I'll follow up in case someone else finds this thread helpful to them!

[T-Rex]

The F82 is bigger than an E92. Just a thought.

If you want something DIY-able then an E46 M3 is the route to go. They require a lot more stuff than an E9X and later but are also much easier to wrench on.

The E9X M3 is probably the middle ground of hell for DIYing because it does require wrenching in a crowded engine bay. The F8X is relatively reliable and low maintenance.

If it were me, I'd get into an F87 M2 Comp.

How much better is the F8X on maintenance / reliability? I am in a similar situation as the OP as of this afternoon, but had assumed like most BMWs the newest generation was yet another step up in terms of ongoing maintenance / repair costs compared to an E9X

[IamFODI]

The C7 Corvette uses a GM 8-speed auto, not a ZF. Not even remotely related. Last time GM used a ZF in a Corvette was the LT1 C4 with the ZF 6-speed.

I stand corrected! Thanks.

[heinzboehmer]

The N55 powered 135i "auto" transmission is the same DCT as the 135is and very similar to the DCT in the E9x M3.

Oh cool, did not know that!

[t44tq]

Steering is one of the few driving-engagement-related things the E9x M3 does better than the E46 M3. If you didn’t think it felt right, definitely try another.

E9x is definitely in a weird no-man’s land between M3 and M5, IMO. I can see looking at it as more of an M5 replacement than an M3 replacement.

I drove an automatic C7 and thought the auto was catastrophically bad, especially for that kind of car. Hard to imagine it’s the same trans as BMW uses.

The C7 Corvette uses a GM 8-speed auto, not a ZF. Not even remotely related. Last time GM used a ZF in a Corvette was the LT1 C4 with the ZF 6-speed.

[t44tq]

1M only came in manual. 135is sounds like what you would want. Basically a 135i but with the E9x M3 DCT.

The N55 powered 135i "auto" transmission is the same DCT as the 135is and very similar to the DCT in the E9x M3.

[EthanolTurbo]

S85 is a bit fragile though, right? Not in the sense of blowing up but there's all kinds of expensive stuff that breaks on it. S65 fixes a lot of those problems.

I haven't found my S65 to be hard to work on. Can't say it's easier than an S54 (never wrenched on one) but I'm finding it hard to think of things that need regular service or commonly break that are hard to get to.

I do also miss pumping oil from the top, though. Would make things so much easier at oil change time.

Ice Cream already covered it but they're really not that bad. It's just not a car you can run on a budget, gotta take care of the maintenance and it's solid. I think I saw a guy with 200k+ miles even on stock rod bearings.

[Icecream]

S85 is a bit fragile though, right? Not in the sense of blowing up but there's all kinds of expensive stuff that breaks on it. S65 fixes a lot of those problems.

I haven't found my S65 to be hard to work on. Can't say it's easier than an S54 (never wrenched on one) but I'm finding it hard to think of things that need regular service or commonly break that are hard to get to.

I do also miss pumping oil from the top, though. Would make things so much easier at oil change time.

Not really, some issues plague both platforms equally (throttle actuators, injectors, ionic modules, the rare valve spring etc). If you get an LCI you save alot of headache on the S85 specific stuff. The biggest issue was the vanos pump. It is more fragile and difficult to properly reinstall on early models and a mistake there will grenade the pump (or it will grenade from the design itself). The later ones have a more robust design and don't fail. The early ones also had an internal high pressure vanos line that would leak. This was fixed in later models and can be updated or changed when doing the rod bearings.
Vanos solenoids can also go, cleaning and new seals will probably fix most of that. And plan for an oil cooler, they seem to leak as miles go up. LCI is key.
On mine I did oil cooler, rod bearings, injectors and spark plugs preemptively, starter, transmission fluid flush. Then of course you do have smg stuff to worry about but overall that is much improved over the e46.

[IamFODI]

Another reason to look at the e63 M6. I have never worked on an e9x, but I can say there is nothing so far that is more difficult on the M6 compared to the e46. I'd even venture to say some parts are easier just because it is better designed or lighter (getting the subframe down for example) or the perfectly designed access holes to get the plenum clamps off.
Oil changes are fine, I do miss pumping from the top but that's an issue on all new cars, and access to transmission/suspension maintenance is about the same. Really check it out man, if you're local to me, you can even drive mine.

E60 M5 and E63 M6 are definitely winners. Just kind of baller with the MPG 😂

S85 is a bit fragile though, right? Not in the sense of blowing up but there's all kinds of expensive stuff that breaks on it. S65 fixes a lot of those problems.

I haven't found my S65 to be hard to work on. Can't say it's easier than an S54 (never wrenched on one) but I'm finding it hard to think of things that need regular service or commonly break that are hard to get to.

I do also miss pumping oil from the top, though. Would make things so much easier at oil change time.

[bigjae46]

E60 M5 and E63 M6 are definitely winners. Just kind of baller with the MPG 😂

I’ve owned my E90 M3 since new. Love it except for the cup holders (could you think of a worse design?) and the fuel economy gets kinda rough when 93 approaches $5/gal. 🤣

[EthanolTurbo]

Another reason to look at the e63 M6. I have never worked on an e9x, but I can say there is nothing so far that is more difficult on the M6 compared to the e46. I'd even venture to say some parts are easier just because it is better designed or lighter (getting the subframe down for example) or the perfectly designed access holes to get the plenum clamps off.
Oil changes are fine, I do miss pumping from the top but that's an issue on all new cars, and access to transmission/suspension maintenance is about the same. Really check it out man, if you're local to me, you can even drive mine.

E60 M5 and E63 M6 are definitely winners. Just kind of baller with the MPG 😂

[Icecream]

The F82 is bigger than an E92. Just a thought.

If you want something DIY-able then an E46 M3 is the route to go. They require a lot more stuff than an E9X and later but are also much easier to wrench on.

The E9X M3 is probably the middle ground of hell for DIYing because it does require wrenching in a crowded engine bay. The F8X is relatively reliable and low maintenance.

If it were me, I'd get into an F87 M2 Comp.

Another reason to look at the e63 M6. I have never worked on an e9x, but I can say there is nothing so far that is more difficult on the M6 compared to the e46. I'd even venture to say some parts are easier just because it is better designed or lighter (getting the subframe down for example) or the perfectly designed access holes to get the plenum clamps off.
Oil changes are fine, I do miss pumping from the top but that's an issue on all new cars, and access to transmission/suspension maintenance is about the same. Really check it out man, if you're local to me, you can even drive mine.