Comprehensive Steering Information Thread

[1000hp]

Update: refreshed everything in the rear and replaced the front control arm bushings while it was off the ground.

The weird light/springy feeling on center was present with the car on jackstands, with the engine off, prior to replacing the front control arm bushings, and is gone after replacing them. So... front control arm bushings, apparently.

The rresponse is still a little vague on center, but no longer so springy-then-responsive. I'll try zero toe as well.

[1000hp]

It has 1/16" (~0.2°-ish) total toe in it as it sits. Camber is right around -2° front and rear.

I love a good reason to buy new parts, but I don't find any play or excessive movement in anything up front. I'll take a look at the RTABS. The diff bushings are worn and will be replaced soon, but the rear seems pretty well planted.

Pretty confident that I'm interpreting the behavior correctly. It's not nervous at all on center. It's pretty vague on center, then the overly light steering becomes more obvious with more input.

Update: the RTABs are soft 😐. Will update again when that's addressed.

[bluptgm3]

Just read through this whole thread.

Maybe I've missed something, but is there a rack that doesn't have a big dead spot on center? Never had a car with steering that was both vague and nervous at the same time...until now 😆

Could be an alignment issue.
Too much toe in can make steering feel slow and too much toe out makes a car twitchy.

Tire pressure can enhance or detract from the above characteristics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Obioban]

Just read through this whole thread.

Maybe I've missed something, but is there a rack that doesn't have a big dead spot on center? Never had a car with steering that was both vague and nervous at the same time...until now 😆

It's like you're whipping the steering wheel around too easily on center, but don't notice that it's too easy because it's dead. And then it suddenly breaks out of the dead zone and gets nervous. Is this how they all are??

I've done the Z3 rack thing before, on an e36 M3, and it was indeed way too twitchy for me. In fact it was one of only two mods I would not have done over again (and won't do with this car).

I have the pump regulator spacers coming. Hopefully that will correct the over-assist issue. But what about the on-center response? Are any of these rack options more responsive in the middle without being spastic?

The nervousness is almost certainly not rack related— RTABs, alignment, ride height, some other bushing, etc.

[1000hp]

Thanks. I'll see how it goes with the pump spacers and maybe a harder steering joint.

May try zero total toe, too. I've found that to be a little on the nervous side in the past, but that may have been the Z3 rack + zero toe.

[SQ13]

Try running zero toe up front. And switch to ZCP or ZHP steering rack if you haven’t done so already. Recently drove an M3 with stock rack, and it was awful.

[Tbonem3]

Some suggest a solid steering joint rather than our rubber ones. I installed a new factory one not too many miles ago and it helped, but I may try solid.

[1000hp]

Just read through this whole thread.

Maybe I've missed something, but is there a rack that doesn't have a big dead spot on center? Never had a car with steering that was both vague and nervous at the same time...until now 😆

It's like you're whipping the steering wheel around too easily on center, but don't notice that it's too easy because it's dead. And then it suddenly breaks out of the dead zone and gets nervous. Is this how they all are??

I've done the Z3 rack thing before, on an e36 M3, and it was indeed way too twitchy for me. In fact it was one of only two mods I would not have done over again (and won't do with this car).

I have the pump regulator spacers coming. Hopefully that will correct the over-assist issue. But what about the on-center response? Are any of these rack options more responsive in the middle without being spastic?

[heinzboehmer]

The e9x front end grip is magical BUT I've got my E46 close with some good mods. I'm not terribly bothered by how good the front end of the e90 is versus E46. The gap in steering feel is much bigger to me.

I've driven Bryson's car with the brace and the difference is huge. Had a passenger ride with me the first time I drove it (who's not into cars in the slightest) and even they said they noticed a difference between my car and the wagon.

But more expensive to fix

My triangulation brace design will be open sourced when finished! Only costs will be manufacturing, hardware, adhesive and a set of E85/E86 braces. Say $1-2k all in.

[Bry5on]

I don't see how that's possbile - the 996 big reds are huge! Maybe the different spoke profile or did you scallop them out further? Or mill down excessive alloy material on the calipers' outside :P




That would be interesting to test, thanks for offering.

Here ya go! Just under 3mm clearance, no machining (other than the standard machining to fit) required. These are 17” diameter too, even tighter

[Tbonem3]

I run 9” ARC-8s with et46 (et52+6mm spacers) and 996 calipers, so it can be done! Just have to be real creative.

I don't see how that's possbile - the 996 big reds are huge! Maybe the different spoke profile or did you scallop them out further? Or mill down excessive alloy material on the calipers' outside :P

The front end stiffness has a huge effect on steering feel and especially precision. This is the primary reason I went so far to stiffen the front end with the Slon brace - steering feel/precision/feedback. I actually find my e46 to be much more fun with better feedback than the e92 personally. I run a rebuilt yellow tag rack, 9” et46 wheels, solid steering shaft, 245 front tires, Slon strut brace. You’re welcome to take it for a spin if we ever get to meet in person. I’ll be moving to San Diego soon.

That would be interesting to test, thanks for offering.

[Bry5on]

Thanks for that background info Bryson.

I run 9.5"et35 front wheels but have to use, at minimum, a 5mm spacer for the 996 capilers. So I'm locked at offset of 30. Even with a different profile wheel, I doubt I could go much higher.

I'll keep my eye open for CSL/ZCP rack, that's probably the last reasonable thing I'd try.

I run 9” ARC-8s with et46 (et52+6mm spacers) and 996 calipers, so it can be done! Just have to be real creative.

The e9x front end grip is magical BUT I've got my E46 close with some good mods. I'm not terribly bothered by how good the front end of the e90 is versus E46. The gap in steering feel is much bigger to me.

The front end stiffness has a huge effect on steering feel and especially precision. This is the primary reason I went so far to stiffen the front end with the Slon brace - steering feel/precision/feedback. I actually find my e46 to be much more fun with better feedback than the e92 personally. I run a rebuilt yellow tag rack, 9” et46 wheels, solid steering shaft, 245 front tires, Slon strut brace. You’re welcome to take it for a spin if we ever get to meet in person. I’ll be moving to San Diego soon.

[Tbonem3]

One more thing: the e9x has a way stiffer front chassis. Very big difference there. But more expensive to fix

The e9x front end grip is magical BUT I've got my E46 close with some good mods. I'm not terribly bothered by how good the front end of the e90 is versus E46. The gap in steering feel is much bigger to me.

[Tbonem3]

Thanks for that background info Bryson.

I run 9.5"et35 front wheels but have to use, at minimum, a 5mm spacer for the 996 capilers. So I'm locked at offset of 30. Even with a different profile wheel, I doubt I could go much higher.

I'll keep my eye open for CSL/ZCP rack, that's probably the last reasonable thing I'd try.

[Bry5on]

One more thing: the e9x has a way stiffer front chassis. Very big difference there. But more expensive to fix