E46 M3 Best Subframe Reinforcement Kit?

[Lee_Enfield]

I don’t have a website yet. For now the Facebook page www.Facebook.com/pprndnews is what I can offer. Certain not ideal, but it’s a time and priority issue as I need to focus on building kits.

Anyway, the cracks would need to be covered by the VinceSkinz, any larger cracks would need to be welded.
You are welcome to send me pictures at [email protected] and I’ll take a look at them.

Vince


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Can people just email you for orders?

[bigjae46]

Your story (which is similar to many I come across) is valuable information to the many that are still unaware of this.

But please don’t forget about the topside of the front mounts as well. The lateral forces (from cornering) are mostly handled by the front mounts. And this video illustrates how and why the top side of the front mounts crack because of these lateral forces. And why there’s a need for reinforcement and extra support in this area.

IMO...I think the top is almost more important. My subframe had a couple of spot welds that were starting to separate with one real small crack. The top side was way worse.

[VinceSE2]

I got my 2005 M3 around 2016 and reinforced the subframe with the Turner’s kit at a reputable shop. This was my daily, weekend canyon carver and track car all in one. Come May 2020, while at my 5th track day, I took a left hand turn and the rear came loose and I got flagged to get off the track. I then noticed my right camber arm had snapped, oh well no big deal. When I got it to my mechanic’s shop, that arm was the least of my worries. The entire rear floor had come apart, the spring perches had collapsed in and the rear was barely hanging on by the reinforcement plates. A couple months later, I picked up a garage queen 2006 M3 and having the fear of my previous M3’s subframe issues instilled upon me, I had to do everything to protect this one. I got the Reddish plates and the PureTech Sweden X Brace and realized how important the top side really is.

Your story (which is similar to many I come across) is valuable information to the many that are still unaware of this.

But please don’t forget about the topside of the front mounts as well. The lateral forces (from cornering) are mostly handled by the front mounts. And this video illustrates how and why the top side of the front mounts crack because of these lateral forces. And why there’s a need for reinforcement and extra support in this area.

https://youtu.be/-Ms-pHEjIBM

I offer the Front Gusset Cups (that are part of the VinceBar kit) separately for those who have opted for an X-brace.




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[VaruzhM3]

I got my 2005 M3 around 2016 and reinforced the subframe with the Turner’s kit at a reputable shop. This was my daily, weekend canyon carver and track car all in one. Come May 2020, while at my 5th track day, I took a left hand turn and the rear came loose and I got flagged to get off the track. I then noticed my right camber arm had snapped, oh well no big deal. When I got it to my mechanic’s shop, that arm was the least of my worries. The entire rear floor had come apart, the spring perches had collapsed in and the rear was barely hanging on by the reinforcement plates. A couple months later, I picked up a garage queen 2006 M3 and having the fear of my previous M3’s subframe issues instilled upon me, I had to do everything to protect this one. I got the Reddish plates and the PureTech Sweden X Brace and realized how important the top side really is.

[Thoglan]

I'll forever be a shill for CMP. Everything I've had from them has been super good quality. My only regret is doing my reinforcement with their original kit prior to the recent updated version which is a bit lighter and more subtle looking in the boot.

[Crowley739]

Thank you Amos. Reading the other thread going on bracing now, Vince's explanation of the need for the braces makes more sense now. It is nice getting others experience with just the X brace though. I'm thinking of starting with a X brace and then when I have more time to do a full solution, I can do that.

[Amos]

I know this doesn’t help op as much and Im sure this has been answered somewhere, but are there any X braces that bolt in the rear that would suffice? My subframe has no reinforcements yet but it also has no cracks yet. Or do people recommend doing plate kits in addition?

I have the Mason X brace, been running it for a few years. There were no cracks on the underside when I put it on and no cracks still. The brace really tightens up the rear end.

The only thing I have not checked is the condition of front mounts topside - requires cutting the floor under the seats. I am not too worried about it, although I will probably get the Vince front gusset things for peace of mind at some point.

[VinceSE2]

Vince, I can't seem to find your website to see the pricing.

Also, since I have major cracking or worse, what would I need to do/buy in addition to Vince Skins and the Vince Bar?

I don’t have a website yet. For now the Facebook page www.Facebook.com/pprndnews is what I can offer. Certain not ideal, but it’s a time and priority issue as I need to focus on building kits.

Anyway, the cracks would need to be covered by the VinceSkinz, any larger cracks would need to be welded.
You are welcome to send me pictures at [email protected] and I’ll take a look at them.

Vince


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[Crowley739]

I know this doesn’t help op as much and Im sure this has been answered somewhere, but are there any X braces that bolt in the rear that would suffice? My subframe has no reinforcements yet but it also has no cracks yet. Or do people recommend doing plate kits in addition?

[Cephyr13]

Well, IMHO there really is no first and second. The top side load relief addresses the underlying problem and prevents damage from occurring once the underside is repaired.

Any and all underside damage do need to be repaired. And there are areas of the underside, most notably the underside of the front right subframe mount, that need reinforcement. Especially once enough fatigue cracks, or even broken off pieces of the RACP skin, have occurred.

I just don’t believe it’s a great idea to add a lot of weld, and more specifically the immense local heat, into the already weakened areas. The heat will metallurgically cause brittleness.

So because of this, and the added simplicity for the average DIY’er, I offer the VinceSkinz.

https://youtu.be/ucBL4y7LoL0

https://youtu.be/JNW51IQQxTs

The VinceSkinz are thinner (than the traditional weld on plates) skinz that closely follow the RACP skin and are, just like its done in the aerospace industry, epoxied and rived to the RACP.

Ideally you do the underside and the topside at the same time. It saves you both time and money.

But if you really can’t afford doing both at the sane time I recommend doing the underside first and while doing so prep for the topside VinceBar kit by drilling, threading and installing the extended subframe studs and bolts.
That way you won’t need to drop the subframe a second time when you do the topside.


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Vince, I can't seem to find your website to see the pricing.

Also, since I have major cracking or worse, what would I need to do/buy in addition to Vince Skins and the Vince Bar?

[tlow98]

I installed the full VinceBar + gusset cups and VinceSkinz system on my car. I like it since I could install it myself and there was no welding. Added RevShift poly subframe bushings while I was at it.

I’ve been driving on it for about 4 months now, including 2 AX events, and I’m very happy with it. It definitely stiffened up the rear end of the car. I have a lot of confidence in the long term structural integrity

IMO, this is about as good as it gets. Add the OE foam for that kiss of perfection

[nahvkolaj]

I installed the full VinceBar + gusset cups and VinceSkinz system on my car. I like it since I could install it myself and there was no welding. Added RevShift poly subframe bushings while I was at it.

I’ve been driving on it for about 4 months now, including 2 AX events, and I’m very happy with it. It definitely stiffened up the rear end of the car. I have a lot of confidence in the long term structural integrity

[BlueBimmers]

Material to ponder

[VinceSE2]

So is it better to do the top side first?


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Well, IMHO there really is no first and second. The top side load relief addresses the underlying problem and prevents damage from occurring once the underside is repaired.

Any and all underside damage do need to be repaired. And there are areas of the underside, most notably the underside of the front right subframe mount, that need reinforcement. Especially once enough fatigue cracks, or even broken off pieces of the RACP skin, have occurred.

I just don’t believe it’s a great idea to add a lot of weld, and more specifically the immense local heat, into the already weakened areas. The heat will metallurgically cause brittleness.

So because of this, and the added simplicity for the average DIY’er, I offer the VinceSkinz.

https://youtu.be/ucBL4y7LoL0

https://youtu.be/JNW51IQQxTs

The VinceSkinz are thinner (than the traditional weld on plates) skinz that closely follow the RACP skin and are, just like its done in the aerospace industry, epoxied and rived to the RACP.

Ideally you do the underside and the topside at the same time. It saves you both time and money.

But if you really can’t afford doing both at the sane time I recommend doing the underside first and while doing so prep for the topside VinceBar kit by drilling, threading and installing the extended subframe studs and bolts.
That way you won’t need to drop the subframe a second time when you do the topside.


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[Pklauser]

It's really fascinating to see how the community thoughts on this have evolved over time. I'm personally 100% on board with topside reinforcement. The evidence is there and the engineering makes sense: tie the subframe to something structural, not the floor. A thicker floor is still not structural.

Run from any shop that tries to tell you it's not necessary.