Suggestions for Dual-Purposed Coilovers for Tracking and Spirited Driving

[S54330Ci]

. . . the issue with any monotube damper is that they have very high friction from the stout seals which results in a high force to get the seals to move initially. This causes a pretty stiff feeling ride around town.

So by this argument the TCK would have soft seals to make the ride more compliant. That's not how it works.

With any adjustable damper, people often equate higher rebound settings to better handling. They crank up the rebound not realizing they have now put the damper's reaction against the spring's tension outside the performance envelope of the spring. Once compressed, the spring wants to return to a neutral state at a certain rate of speed, but the high rebound setting on the damper prevents that from happening, hence a stiff ride.

DA dampers make this situation even worse as now you can adjust both rebound and compression, which, if adjusted incorrectly, can really make the ride quality suffer.

Remember, a damper is intended to control the motion of the spring, not necessarily to make the car lean less in the corners, that's what sway bars and stiffer springs are for.

In most cases a rough ride is usually caused by mis-matched springs and dampers.
1) Spring rates too high or too low relative to damper valving.
2) Damper stroke too long for spring length (i.e. lowering spring) resulting in the damper bottoming out internally.

[tlow98]

Yes and Yes (depending upon your requirements).

Both the MCS and Ohlins R&T are head and shoulders better than the TCK Koni offering.

MCS dampers have a unique blow-off valve that manage high speed compression hits where shaft speed velocities can create significant increases in compression damping forces. These blow off values are entirely unique to MCS and minimize a compression strike minimizing a large loss of grip in street applications and providing comfortable road manners. MCS will allow you to run higher spring rates and still provide a compliant ride thanks to their unique blow-off valve technology. This is their secret sauce IMO.

Ohlins DFV technology gives the same characteristics on rebound as it does on compression. This is accomplished by giving the damper fluid a consistent path of flow in both directions at high or low piston speeds. The result is better ride comfort that matches OEM strut performance, but in an adjustable coil-over design.

The Koni dampers is a basic monotube design that has been around for years. It's a proven design, but the technology lags behind companies like MCS and Ohlins. I think it is a compromised design that doesn't stand out above the rest pack on either street or track.

Bottom line, both MCS and Ohlins R&T will be a better damper with improved ride qualities over a TCK Koni setup, however the cost for these dampers is higher. MCS will give you the highest degree of flexibility when it comes to spring rates as their valving can usually accommodate a range of spring rates before needing to change out the valving. Ohlins is more of a "set it and forget it" design, where OEM ride comfort with height adjustability is prioritized.

From a dual-purpose car perspective (i.e. street car / track car) the MSC is the better damper IMO. Ohlins makes a dedicated track setup, but the included Swift spring have very high rates that are too high for comfortable street driving. I guess that's why they label it "dedicated track".

Ohlins R&T = High quality OEM comfort in a coil-over design.
MCS = Greater spring rate flexibility, better suited for dual-purpose cars.
TCK Koni = Proven "budget" option that has been around forever.

I’ve heard conflicting reviews about MCS and Ohlins riding better than TCK. The issue with any monotube damper is that they have very high friction from the stout seals which results in a high force to get the seals to move initially. This causes a pretty stiff feeling ride around town. Now, can they handle a curb blowoff event better? Likely.

take a look around on here - there are multiple people that have owned all of these. From a ride quality perspective TCK is pretty hard to beat.

[tnord]

I'm not going to play pretend like this car is going to see much, if any, track duty. I guess it would be nice if that day were to come, the dampers could handle a step or two up in spring rates. But really, I know what I want this car to feel like and it's more street than track, if I think about it in my brain I can feel it in my hands.

I don't really plan on messing with the setup once it's done, so the wide range of rates the MCS can handle isn't necessarily a positive in my use case. If the MCS can maintain better contact with the road while minding it's manners than the Ohlins, I'll pay to play. The MCS + bars also fits neatly into my overly simplistic belief that anything worth doing on this car will cost you $5k.

Suspension? $5k
Exhaust? 5k
Airbox and tuning? $5k
Brakes? $5k

[S54330Ci]

. . . . am I off base in thinking a "higher end" damper will produce a better result for the street if the correct spring rates are used? Is the MCS 1WNR actually any "better" than the TCK Koni, Ohlins DFV, etc?

Yes and Yes (depending upon your requirements).

Both the MCS and Ohlins R&T are head and shoulders better than the TCK Koni offering.

MCS dampers have a unique blow-off valve that manage high speed compression hits where shaft speed velocities can create significant increases in compression damping forces. These blow off values are entirely unique to MCS and minimize a compression strike minimizing a large loss of grip in street applications and providing comfortable road manners. MCS will allow you to run higher spring rates and still provide a compliant ride thanks to their unique blow-off valve technology. This is their secret sauce IMO.

Ohlins DFV technology gives the same characteristics on rebound as it does on compression. This is accomplished by giving the damper fluid a consistent path of flow in both directions at high or low piston speeds. The result is better ride comfort that matches OEM strut performance, but in an adjustable coil-over design.

The Koni dampers is a basic monotube design that has been around for years. It's a proven design, but the technology lags behind companies like MCS and Ohlins. I think it is a compromised design that doesn't stand out above the rest pack on either street or track.

Bottom line, both MCS and Ohlins R&T will be a better damper with improved ride qualities over a TCK Koni setup, however the cost for these dampers is higher. MCS will give you the highest degree of flexibility when it comes to spring rates as their valving can usually accommodate a range of spring rates before needing to change out the valving. Ohlins is more of a "set it and forget it" design, where OEM ride comfort with height adjustability is prioritized.

From a dual-purpose car perspective (i.e. street car / track car) the MSC is the better damper IMO. Ohlins makes a dedicated track setup, but the included Swift spring have very high rates that are too high for comfortable street driving. I guess that's why they label it "dedicated track".

Ohlins R&T = High quality OEM comfort in a coil-over design.
MCS = Greater spring rate flexibility, better suited for dual-purpose cars.
TCK Koni = Proven "budget" option that has been around forever.

[tnord]

as we approach holiday sales, I'm trying to prepare myself for my annual irrational purchase. the most rational of all the irrational possibilities for this year is probably refreshing my currently corroding suspension. there's a million suspension threads, and I've read most at one time or another, but I'll bump this one back up because there's much discussion of the Ohlins RTR setup and MCS 1WNR.

I'm trying to narrow down to what basically amounts to a very competent street setup. Yes, I know the default recommendation is the TCK SA or DA depending on budget. But in my mind I can't help but think a "better" damper might provide more comfort and control than the TCK options given appropriate spring rates. I'm not trying to throw a track setup at a street car and then complain about harshness. Recognizing my lack of intimate knowledge, am I off base in thinking a "higher end" damper will produce a better result for the street if the correct spring rates are used? Is the MCS 1WNR actually any "better" than the TCK Koni, Ohlins DFV, etc?

[r4dr]

It can't be that hard to have some made. It's a very simple shape.

I made a pair of perches for 2.25" springs which are currently in my car and work great.

I have MCS 1WNR with "low" rates (275/600) and they're silent and feel incredible.

[jvit27]

The 2.5” perches are NLA. Ship date keeps getting pushed back (Oct last time I checked), so I imagine no one will ever get their hands on them.

It's been well over a year since I was trying to get them, also kept getting pushed back months at a time. Give up lol.

[cobra]

It can't be that hard to have some made. It's a very simple shape.

[Tbonem3]

😔.

[SQ13]

You can get 63.5mm which Ohlins works with. You get the 2.5" (63.5mm) TMS perches for their street plate, then use a 2.5" spring which will sit fine on bottom ohlins perch of 65mm. You're only talking a .75mm difference side to side.

The 2.5” perches are NLA. Ship date keeps getting pushed back (Oct last time I checked), so I imagine no one will ever get their hands on them.

[fattycharged]

I still on't understand these GC Street plates with noise comments, mine are silent, they're very insulated with rubber bushings

[Tbonem3]

Too bad you can’t get 65 mm spring perches for the TMS Street plates.

You can get 63.5mm which Ohlins works with. You get the 2.5" (63.5mm) TMS perches for their street plate, then use a 2.5" spring which will sit fine on bottom ohlins perch of 65mm. You're only talking a .75mm difference side to side.

[SQ13]

Too bad you can’t get 65 mm spring perches for the TMS Street plates.

[Tbonem3]

While I like the articulation of the weight jackers, it never made sense to me how to deal with noise and wear with the metal on metal ontact. Seems liek they should make a nylon or delrin sleeve similar to the miniscus in our joints. Or maybe you're supposed to cosntantly lube the tip that the perch hinges on?

I like Ground control overall, but their stuff, understandably, doesn't seem to have comfort/noise in mind. My non articulating rear GC perch made a lot of noise. I moved to stiffer ohlins spring on their rear setup, with rubber isolation, and now there's not even a single rattle/jingle nothing in the way of noise or vibration, I'm really happy. Seems like the front GC plates, even street, make some noises where 2 pairs of TMS street plates (on 2 cars) have been dead quite for me for several years.

[dreamdrivedrift]

Can't you just fix the valving? The basic shock architecture of the 1WNR isn't bad.

& Tbone

You guys are probably right. Car will be going on stands shortly and getting nut & bolted. We will see how it is after I make sure everything’s tight. I have a feeling the GC weight jackers are the ones making noise if spring is getting unloaded.