Saving a S54 From Parting Out.

[sapote]

Look at run out is same around ~8-9 thou absolute disaster..

I don't think the NEWEN CNC machine to be blamed, but who set the valve guide as the center with 8 thou off center error

[Anri]

Digger,

This is exact what talking about. My phone camera is full and I can't make
videos more than 2min or less otherwise I would have made same video
to show the process..I need go-pro type and then I can show the process
which identical as the one seen in the video.

These are LS AFR 300, please zoom in and you can see they are CNCd and
also pay attention to how the seat is cut! Its done with Newen type of a
machine which one can recognize by the pass (at least I can).

Look at run out is same around ~8-9 thou absolute disaster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3jn2ER455Y

The machinist brought the concentricity to about 2 thou, I bring them from 1
thou down to zero. I do use exact the same machine. I personally spent far
more time than his did to bring things to sloe to 0.

Regards,
Anri.

[Anri]

Digger,

I found a quick short video. As we can see the design even with the right pilot
how it works can allow some variations vs the traditional pilot which is rock solid
ones installed in the valve guide deep and it locks. The head unit I am
using goes very tight over the pilot !!! It's a bit of a process. The multi angles
build in single cutter is made from very hard material, it is very important to get the
cutting speed right because otherwise chattering occurs.

To get perfect concentricity the cutting blade while its making the pass can't not
leave the surface during cut via "corkscrew" motion.

Concentiry is extremity important for the valve to sit properly and not lean on
the guide inside...7-8 thou is a lot. Also banging the valve seat with more
pressure from one side more than other for sure contributes for either drop
seat or drop valve head.

Anyway I am not looking back...


Regards,
Anri

https://youtube.com/shorts/xtI6HSNDItk?feature=share

[digger]

Digger,

When I left those heads I mentioend I want to see
under .1 thou run out while I was demanding to pass
90%+. Then right before I hopped in my daily driver E28M5
I said please don't forget. A month later I started to work
on the heads and seats are 8 thou off I called him up and he
never picked up the phone he knows why I am calling back..

Remember he is not cutting it by hand it's automated.
Like I mentioned I see the problem with the Newen set up.

I use the multi angle blade in one and I get to chose the specs
I want. I also have my own technic..today I just finished 1 head
which it took me 3 days...its slow but death accurate!

Regards,
Anri

""

The following are based on my understanding of the Newen. the valve guide size changes depending on the head being worked. the operator needs to choose the correct "pilot" so you cant rely on muppets to operate and expect good outcome so not really automatic. i do think there are some fundamental flaws in the machine spinning pilot in the guide i dont like, but i could do better than 8 thou with a Neway hand cutter lol so they wouldn't be still selling machines of 6 to 8 though was the norm

[Anri]

I am not sure i did mention anything recently?
In any case they obviously screwed it up. it wont be the norm to be that far out so i wouldn't blame the machine.
Did you call them and tell them?

Digger,

When I left those heads I mentioend I want to see
under .1 thou run out while I was after to pass
90%+. Then right before I hopped in my daily driver E28M5
I said please don't forget. A month later I started to work
on the heads and seats are 8 thou off I called him up and he
never picked up the phone he knows why I am calling back..

Remember he is not cutting it by hand it's automated.
Like I mentioned I see the problem with the Newen set up.

I use the multi angle blade in one and I get to chose the specs
I want. I also have my own technic..today I just finished 1 head
which it took me 3 days...its slow but death accurate!

Regards,
Anri

[digger]

digger,

You mentioned few days ago Competition Valve seat work.

I am working on this S38 head and had a local very famous
Machine shop working only Honda Hi performance cylinder
heads...also S54 !!! and also on new Supras....

The guy purchased Newen CNC machine for cutting only valve
seats. I have to admit I sow the process and it gets the job done
so fast! What this Newen machine did for about 5 hours it was going
to take me a week of work..and thus why I decided to save time
also from cost stand point I wanted to save money to my customer.
So the idea is to bring the valve to throat in 90-91%. The original
is in 89%

Ones the head was completed I shipped to my shop and few
weeks later now its the time complete the rest like cutting the
valves etc...

I decided to check the Concentricity as I always do if I use any
services which I am not involved. Naive me I had zero doubts...this
is done on CNC....
Man when I checked the concentricity I could not believe my
eyes..on all 24 seats I was between 6-8-thousand inch off.........

I am very disappointed from Newen machine.

From now on Competition seat work will be done In-House
by me, it will take me up tp 2 weeks to do it but it will be done properly!

Link

Newen https://www.instagram.com/p/CvuktvjAPkt/

Corrected by me here https://www.instagram.com/p/Cvum59hAfV3/

I am not sure i did mention anything recently?
In any case they obviously screwed it up. it wont be the norm to be that far out so i wouldn't blame the machine.
Did you call them and tell them?

[Anri]

digger,

You mentioned few days ago Competition Valve seat work.

I am working on this S38 head and had a local very famous
Machine shop working only Honda Hi performance cylinder
heads...also S54 !!! and also on new Supras....

The guy purchased Newen CNC machine for cutting only valve
seats. I have to admit I sow the process and it gets the job done
so fast! What this Newen machine did for about 5 hours it was going
to take me a week of work..and thus why I decided to save time
also from cost stand point I wanted to save money to my customer.
So the idea is to bring the valve to throat in 90-91%. The original
is in 89%

Ones the head was completed I shipped to my shop and few
weeks later now its the time complete the rest like cutting the
valves etc...


I decided to check the Concentricity as I always do if I use any
services which I am not involved. Naive me I had zero doubts...this
is done on CNC....
Man when I checked the concentricity I could not believe my
eyes..on all 24 seats I was between 6-8-thousand inch off.........

I am very disappointed from Newen machine.

From now on Competition seat work will be done In-House
by me, it will take me up tp 2 weeks to do it but it will be done properly!


Link

Newen https://www.instagram.com/p/CvuktvjAPkt/

Corrected by me here https://www.instagram.com/p/Cvum59hAfV3/

[Anri]

Cylinder head gasket:

Well, after removing ~0.55mm from the deck height
the stock gasket will not work for sure.

I ordered MLS Cometic, I was not sure why I thought that
they were made differently for each engine and make..

In the Cometic casket design I don't like 2 things......
I made a quick call to Cometic and started asking question
in regards of my concerns and I kept having the same answer
over and over again which was "we never had any problems..."

I was on a cross road to make a decision either risk it or go
with something I feel more comfortable to use.

MLS/Cometic was dropped from the list.

So the choice of mine will remain Proprietary for now.


Regards,
Anri.

[Anri]

Moving on installing the cylinder head.

It is critically important to install the cylinder head bolts as will call it "Dry" what does it mean?
BMW says lube light the bolts and install, if done this way the oil will come out from the threads
while the bolt is torqued and that is not good to have oil around...the multi layer gasket or
even any gasket.

What I do its a bit of procedure, I use ARP on the bolt thread and then screw them on the block
all the way in, what ever extra comes out I wipe out. Done this way between the bolt thread and
the block thread there is just the right amount. It Is also important to use very little on the washers.
The factory bolts with ARP torque wonderfully. Much better than using using just oil.

I am not using ARP studs. This is one large nonsense for NA engines....it's more marketing thing
to keep the parts industry going. DTM S14 engines were running 140hp/l on std road going bolts..
and highly doubt the P54 was on ARP studs...On Boost its different story.

The std bolts are designed to work as a spring without distorting the cylinder head under
heat cycles.

Regards,
Anri

[Anri]

The proper way to torque the damper to the crank is via using the
locking tool so that way the crank will not get twisted. Every gen.
BMW inline 6 has its own tool.

ARP hi torque grease is used to torque the M12x1.5x110mm.
These torque so much better than just using std oil...very important
is to put some under the torx-head...

Regards,
Anri

[Anri]

Before assembling valve springs, retainers, spring pads,
I ultrasonic clean those to make sure they are all clean and free of sludge.
The springs tend to collect sludge from inside the wire not visible to naked
eye and if not clean they will contaminate the new valve stem seals..

(When I was in the market of purchasing valve spring tester I tried every tester
on the market. Digital with the software, the big-blue, the manual digital
(similar to the big blue). After I tested them using the same spring the
numbers and results were all the same. I decided to go with the Big-Blue
as it is rock reliable accurate and not relaying on any sort of potential failures
from the sensor/s.)

Ones the springs are all clean I perform test at installed height and peak
lift to see if any spring fatigue in the rates may be seen.

Moving ahead.

Regards
Anri

[Anri]

Also what about cylinder head question that i asked you, i showed that cylinder head to my local engine builder who builds high performance NA M5X and M6X strokers and he said it should fine as long there are no crack in head, he also suggested me to pressure test the head before fixing it, just to make sure everything.

Hi,

It's up to you. Sometimes you will find quality welding and the time one spends
on performing quality head repair can reach the price of used in great condition
then why bother to repair it ?

Regards,
Anri

[Theraqa]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

I use Graphite or Molybdenum its called. Teflon is also good but the moly
is my choice. From the factory the S54 are coated with Graphite which
is the same thing. Many companies will call it differently for marketing
purposes...
The beauty is that it will form between the piston skirt and the bore.
Remember nothing in the world is absolute perfect I mean nothing,
so do the pistons to cylinder wall under work out. The moly will form to
and it will ware out exactly as needed.

The trick when spray is not be too thick as it will cover the factory S54 oil
retention groves/lines design, its part of understanding the engineering
behind. For example line2line is good but they spray all out and it covers
those groves..

I have seen pistons from all manufactures up until today I have never seen
single one to match the deep skirt oil retention groves on the Factory S54
pistons!!!!!!! that is one reason why you will neeeever ever see them score
!!!!! Bore is smooth and the skirt is the one to retain oil and that is why S54
pistons at 300k miles on healthy and good maintained engine with regular
oil changes look like new. Tell your local source to spray them in Moly instead
of Teflon.

$10 does not sound right. why ? The preparation is the most important
otherwise you are waisting time and energy and if I describe the process you
will understand why 10 bucks is not realistic quote. If you have hard time to
find local source to do it properly, sent me PM.

Regards,
Anri

Thanks for reply Anri
Yeah 10$ per piston seems to good to be true especially because to coat properly i know that it needs sand blasting, cleaning, baking etc, but i haven't spoke to guy yet so i have to confirm his method, if its legit or not, i dont want those coatings to flake off and float around in my engine lol. Anyways ill ask local engine builders and some people i know if they ever used his service and then ill decide carefully.
I would use your service but unfortunately i don't live in US so thats kinda making things harder.
Also what about cylinder head question that i asked you, i showed that cylinder head to my local engine builder who builds high performance NA M5X and M6X strokers and he said it should fine as long there are no crack in head, he also suggested me to pressure test the head before fixing it, just to make sure everything.

[Anri]

Gents,

Along with S54s, parallel I am working as well on rebuilding highend S38 engine with cams,
stand alone etc...

I wanted to share in quick, I went crazy with the valve seat work. I did hi flow valve angels
and the Eccentricity to 0 I am after all out proper sealing

https://www.instagram.com/p/CvLfF3wgb7Y/

Regards,
Anri

[Anri]

Damn Anri, keep up the good work man, im absolutely in love with this thread, gaining lots of information and motivating me for my first DIY S54 build, for past few months i have been slowly gathering parts of the S54 engine to start building it, only thing i don't have is block itself, but hopefully ill find it soon, i have got crank which has some marks which are not deep but would like to remove so i will be polishing it to "mirror finish".
My good old friend gave me many S54 parts including this cylinder head, which has some damage on water/coolant jackets, i guess for using bad coolant...
Anyways, i was told that you can fill those damaged areas with welds and then resurface, im a bit skeptical about this and that's why would like to know your professional opinion on this, i know its not ideal but its what i got and if it will work i would like to use it.
Also after you mentioned that you coat pistons with special coatings i did bit research, as i did not know anything about this and asked around in my area and found a guy who is coating piston skirts in teflon, in house and he charges 10$ per piston and thats cheap i guess, so i wanted to give it a go, but my concern is teflon coating it self, i know you coat your pistons with different material than this, but after coating the skirts as long as piston to wall clearance wont be too tight it should be fine right?

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

I use Graphite or Molybdenum its called. Teflon is also good but the moly
is my choice. From the factory the S54 are coated with Graphite which
is the same thing. Many companies will call it differently for marketing
purposes...
The beauty is that it will form between the piston skirt and the bore.
Remember nothing in the world is absolute perfect I mean nothing,
so do the pistons to cylinder wall under work out. The moly will form to
and it will ware out exactly as needed.

The trick when spray is not be too thick as it will cover the factory S54 oil
retention groves/lines design, its part of understanding the engineering
behind. For example line2line is good but they spray all out and it covers
those groves..

I have seen pistons from all manufactures up until today I have never seen
single one to match the deep skirt oil retention groves on the Factory S54
pistons!!!!!!! that is one reason why you will neeeever ever see them score
!!!!! Bore is smooth and the skirt is the one to retain oil and that is why S54
pistons at 300k miles on healthy and good maintained engine with regular
oil changes look like new. Tell your local source to spray them in Moly instead
of Teflon.

$10 does not sound right. why ? The preparation is the most important
otherwise you are waisting time and energy and if I describe the process you
will understand why 10 bucks is not realistic quote. If you have hard time to
find local source to do it properly, sent me PM.

Regards,
Anri