Where Are We Buying CSL Bumpers These Days?

[Epoustouflant]

Was this the ‘’low mileage’’ E36 M3 Laval VW was selling?

No, the car is still here and available for sale.

You need to realize an E46 M3 is a 20years old car. Each car has it’s specific problems.

I do not, not realize that. I talk about it openly.

That's a point I often make when people ask me about the E46: it's a 2 decade old car using 3 decade old designs in some respect. The suspension and interior designs are all directly related to the E36.

The E46 is where many things ended for BMW, some for the better, a few for the worse. Nothing wrong in making that statement.

My first E46 M3 was a daily driver and I drove it 2-3 winters and it wasn’t making as much plastic noise as my E90 M3 or F31 328xi does during the cold days… and no electronic damper rattling noise too…

The E9x / E6x was a blank slate for most things. Having taken apart both interiors, the E90's build quality was ahead, by a lot. As an example, it makes use of vibration dampening clips and foams all across the interior.

The E46? Bolts and plastic baby

The only thing that will rattle in an E9x M3 are the seat belt holders in the B pillars, and the fancy / stupid belt extender. The steering wheel rubber coating's trim will eventually start to lift. There's little else that goes wrong with them.

I had 2x E90 323xi and 328xi as Winter beaters. They're solid cars. The F3x non N55 cars are super meh, and indeed sh*t boxes. The N20 engine is a disgrace.

and no electronic damper rattling noise too…

I have put my previous E92 M3 EDC, my current E92 M3 DCT and E60 M5 EDC through a total of 6 Quebec winters and 100,000km. I don't know what you mean.

Put the equivalent E46 in the Winter and your front and rear subframe carriers will be rusted, along with the rear trailing arms. The front metal fenders will eventually develop rust issues as well and the rear light's seal wears out, letting water creep into the battery tray.

To be fair, that last bit was still an issue on the E60, but what isn't an issue on the E60.

Not just e46 but bmws in general are shittily built. I have an old merc from the same era with half the problems, a fraction of the mainenance and I still call that a piece as well.

The 90s weren't the rosy era some romanticize for sure. I want to enjoy the E46 M3 for what it is - it's an unperfect analogy: for me these marked the end of our "air cooled" era.

Raw, fun, light, buzzy and beautiful to look at that.

The problems with this car are comical, many, diverse in nature and frequent in terms of failures with regards to engine maintenance. I always got a chuckle when people would buy a cheap used m3 (before the rise in prices) and try to cut corners or "save up" for maintenance because they simply didn't do their homework and had no idea what they're getting themselves in to.

I lol'ed - comical indeed. We convinced ourselves cutting into a rear axle carrier panel and welding beams was totally fine.

I had to make that point with the CSL diffuser, using my car has an example. Most brackets were broken off from an unclaimed love tap at the rear bumper.

These cars are 20 years old and were inexpensive for a while. Many haven't always been cared for as we do today.

Spoken like someone that’s never owned an e36 🤣

That 2 weeks was enough to convince me I shouldn't - lol!

How was your experience with it?

[Obioban]

It isn't saying much to be fair - but I did drive this restored E36 M3 for 2 weeks planning to purchase it last Summer. The headliner started to sag, the A pillar trims unclipped and the tumbler started spinning to eternity.

Still, it's probably more reliable and doesn't fall apart as much as an E46 - and it's much cheaper to own / rebuild.

The E46's A & C pillars will sag, armrests & center consoles creak, the ashtray and covers' rubber coating scratch with any meaningful interaction and the rear view mirrors leak amongst options specific issues: like the M-Texture being a fragile, expensive fabric.

It doesn't take away from my enjoyment of my build - they're just E46 things you have to deal with to get to enjoy the S54, 420G, chassis and its much more pleasing aesthetics.

Spoken like someone that’s never owned an e36 🤣

[jet_dogg]

The E46 M3 is, from my experience, the most expensive of any M3s to dial in. Part of it is due to relatively poor build quality of the era and the impressive step up with the CSL upgrades and those coming from modern technology.

No matter the black hole it has created in my pockets, it's been a great leaning and rewarding process. I can't wait to drive it soon.

Not just e46 but bmws in general are shittily built. I have an old merc from the same era with half the problems, a fraction of the mainenance and I still call that a piece as well.

The problems with this car are comical, many, diverse in nature and frequent in terms of failures with regards to engine maintenance. I always got a chuckle when people would buy a cheap used m3 (before the rise in prices) and try to cut corners or "save up" for maintenance because they simply didn't do their homework and had no idea what they're getting themselves in to.

[Gt4]

It isn't saying much to be fair - but I did drive this restored E36 M3 for 2 weeks planning to purchase it last Summer. The headliner started to sag, the A pillar trims unclipped and the tumbler started spinning to eternity.

Still, it's probably more reliable and doesn't fall apart as much as an E46 - and it's much cheaper to own / rebuild.

The E46's A & C pillars will sag, armrests & center consoles creak, the ashtray and covers' rubber coating scratch with any meaningful interaction and the rear view mirrors leak amongst options specific issues: like the M-Texture being a fragile, expensive fabric.

It doesn't take away from my enjoyment of my build - they're just E46 things you have to deal with to get to enjoy the S54, 420G, chassis and its much more pleasing aesthetics.

Was this the ‘’low mileage’’ E36 M3 Laval VW was selling?

You need to realize an E46 M3 is a 20years old car. Each car has it’s specific problems. My first E46 M3 was a daily driver and I drove it 2-3 winters and it wasn’t making as much plastic noise as my E90 M3 or F31 328xi does during the cold days… and no electronic damper rattling noise too…

[Epoustouflant]

E46 M3 poor quality build??? You must never had touch to an E36 or E30…

It isn't saying much to be fair - but I did drive this restored E36 M3 for 2 weeks planning to purchase it last Summer. The headliner started to sag, the A pillar trims unclipped and the tumbler started spinning to eternity.

Still, it's probably more reliable and doesn't fall apart as much as an E46 - and it's much cheaper to own / rebuild.

The E46's A & C pillars will sag, armrests & center consoles creak, the ashtray and covers' rubber coating scratch with any meaningful interaction and the rear view mirrors leak amongst options specific issues: like the M-Texture being a fragile, expensive fabric.

It doesn't take away from my enjoyment of my build - they're just E46 things you have to deal with to get to enjoy the S54, 420G, chassis and its much more pleasing aesthetics.

[Gt4]

The E46 M3 is, from my experience, the most expensive of any M3s to dial in. Part of it is due to relatively poor build quality of the era and the impressive step up with the CSL upgrades and those coming from modern technology.

No matter the black hole it has created in my pockets, it's been a great leaning and rewarding process. I can't wait to drive it soon.

E46 M3 poor quality build??? You must never had touch to an E36 or E30…

[Epoustouflant]

The reason most of us bought these cars is exactly because of the "aging platform"... these cars are back when BMW did it right.

I definitely could have gotten into a newer M3 for what I spent on my E46, but I love the analog feeling this car gives me... the newer BMWs are just too computer controlled and nanny assisted, and I personally am not a fan of turbo.

Coming from the Honda world it's not uncommon to see $70,000 worth of parts on a 95 civic hatch worth 5 grand on a good day... so to me restoring a legendary car like the E46 that was actually a great platform to begin with, doesn't seem that crazy.

The E46 M3 is, from my experience, the most expensive of any M3s to dial in. Part of it is due to relatively poor build quality of the era and the impressive step up with the CSL upgrades and those coming from modern technology.

No matter the black hole it has created in my pockets, it's been a great leaning and rewarding process. I can't wait to drive it soon.

[Slideways]

The depreciation on a new M3 as soon as it drives off the lot could buy an average E46 M3. Simple man maths

[usdmej]

a 95 civic hatch worth 5 grand on a good day... .

if only . . . .

[9kracing]

The reason most of us bought these cars is exactly because of the "aging platform"... these cars are back when BMW did it right.

I definitely could have gotten into a newer M3 for what I spent on my E46, but I love the analog feeling this car gives me... the newer BMWs are just too computer controlled and nanny assisted, and I personally am not a fan of turbo.

Coming from the Honda world it's not uncommon to see $70,000 worth of parts on a 95 civic hatch worth 5 grand on a good day... so to me restoring a legendary car like the E46 that was actually a great platform to begin with, doesn't seem that crazy.

[gaiakai]

I respect the fact that there are some real ballers here. But, why put so much money into an aging platform? To me a really expensive carbon fiber CSL style bumper is going to get ravaged unless it's some concourse show car. And if you're a low mile example awaiting for the huge classic classification wave to hit, wouldn't keeping it OEM or at least real bmw products the best way?

But, I track and beat the crap outta the car.

For me, it's about building the car the way I wanted it back in highschool when NFS Most Wanted came out. I'm easily going to be spending 2-3x what I paid for the car over time with the parts I want to get for it, not even including the repaint. The CSL bits I get for it will get ppf to mitigate the damage the parts will eventually encounter, as the car sees everything from trackdays to dog slobber in the interior. What I'm doing makes little logical sense, but 15 year old me would be drooling, and isn't that emotional reaction what these types of cars are about?

[Epoustouflant]

I dont see the issue there as long as it fits close to 100%. Main thing also is the finishing from the outside so when painted it looks perfect.

Different standards for different owners, and different budgets. I do have to point out this is a bit of a backtrack versus your previous posts.

When you add auxiliary accessories, paint and fitment to these CSL bumpers, looking at price differences on the parts alone is missing perspective on what is a very expensive conversion.

Beyond fitment, the fiberglass backed carbon this appeared to have been would have been much more fragile than pre-preg carbon from my various personal experiences on such parts and, well, material science!

You don't want to have to do it twice.

No major issue and not the same price as other option.

It’s all the small details that matter to me. On my Vorsteiner, I wasn’t able to install the OEM duct grill, hole is too small and not mold to accept one.The wiring harness is also supposed to attach/clip inside the bumper on driver side but tolerance aren’t precise on the small bracket so would not work.

You're being kind. It's no longer a CSL replica if it can't accept CSL genuine parts.

Also thing like windshield washer reservoir. Since they copied an OEM CSL and use the shock absorbers type mounting, I think with Vorsteiner you need to replace the reservoir for an OEM CSL reservoir?? I modified mine and made a bracket (nothing pretty) riveted inside the bumper so I can mount regular M3 reservoir to it. Wouldn’t been too hard to make their mold just a bit differently so people can reuse their reservoir.

But in the end, once painted and installed, it looks good like most CSL bumpers

The CSL reservoir prices have gone absurd. You can use the E36 reservoir relocated to the SMG bin for the 1:1 reps. BreyKrause sells the bracket kit for it.

[0-60motorsports]

No major issue and not the same price as other option.

It’s all the small details that matter to me. On my Vorsteiner, I wasn’t able to install the OEM duct grill, hole is too small and not mold to accept one.The wiring harness is also supposed to attach/clip inside the bumper on driver side but tolerance aren’t precise on the small bracket so would not work.

Also thing like windshield washer reservoir. Since they copied an OEM CSL and use the shock absorbers type mounting, I think with Vorsteiner you need to replace the reservoir for an OEM CSL reservoir?? I modified mine and made a bracket (nothing pretty) riveted inside the bumper so I can mount regular M3 reservoir to it. Wouldn’t been too hard to make their mold just a bit differently so people can reuse their reservoir.

But in the end, once painted and installed, it looks good like most CSL bumpers

Yes i did all the things i needed to do install everything OE CSL like getting the OE washer bottle etc. and My smaller grill for the intake hole and front bigger grill fit like factory. In the end as you say it looks good.

[Gt4]

I dont see the issue there as long as it fits close to 100%. Main thing also is the finishing from the outside so when painted it looks perfect.

FYI My VCSL bumper has been on my car in this hot region for more than 10 years and looks the same as day one.

No major issue and not the same price as other option.

It’s all the small details that matter to me. On my Vorsteiner, I wasn’t able to install the OEM duct grill, hole is too small and not mold to accept one.The wiring harness is also supposed to attach/clip inside the bumper on driver side but tolerance aren’t precise on the small bracket so would not work.

Also thing like windshield washer reservoir. Since they copied an OEM CSL and use the shock absorbers type mounting, I think with Vorsteiner you need to replace the reservoir for an OEM CSL reservoir?? I modified mine and made a bracket (nothing pretty) riveted inside the bumper so I can mount regular M3 reservoir to it. Wouldn’t been too hard to make their mold just a bit differently so people can reuse their reservoir.

But in the end, once painted and installed, it looks good like most CSL bumpers

[0-60motorsports]

Just sold tonight the Vorsteiner CSL bumper I had on my Silver M3, took this picture since people here were talking about different build quality/process.

I dont see the issue there as long as it fits close to 100%. Main thing also is the finishing from the outside so when painted it looks perfect.

FYI My VCSL bumper has been on my car in this hot region for more than 10 years and looks the same as day one.