E46, E36, E9x Discussion with Camissa, DTS, and Larry Webster from Haggerty

[Slideways]

Really not a Porsche fan I guess

I do like a squished GT beetle, less the wing

The base used Porsches, that are around the same price as a used E46 M3, have such meh, non-ITB engines that it makes a Porsche less appealing, IMO. Also, I imagine serviceability is not as easy as it is on the E46.

Having driven a base 997 Carrera for a few days a while back, it did have better steering and a better shifting mechanism than the E46.

[WestBankM4]

Really not a Porsche fan I guess

People still like the 924, 944's and 928's. I had a 944S at one point, but it was stolen from my house and chopped up in East Palo Alto. Terrible times.

[bigjae46]

I think the whole concept of internal combustion is more romantic than functional in 2023. Regardless of where you fall on the innovational spectrum, it only takes one time in a Tesla, Rivian or even Ford Lightning to understand the future of daily transportation. E36, e39, e46.. shit, even the e90 (which I think is noisy and numb) will provide an experience you would not otherwise have, if driving does something more than transportation for you. Cammisa is still an influencer; a good one at that.

There's one issue with electric cars...economics.

No matter what, hydrocarbons (nat gas, crude oil) will be in our lives for a long time unless we go through a transformational change in our quality of life...meaning much worse. There are certain things that just can't be made without hydrocarbon molecules. Who wants to go back to natural fiber clothing?

Refining processes generally produce a 20g of gas, 12.5g of diesel, 3.5g jet fuel, and 6.3g of other stuff from a barrel of crude oil. Refining process can slightly modify the outputs. Over time, supply chains have been developed to produce a certain amount of stuff. Let's say air travel goes up which increases demand for jet. So if prices go up enough refineries will reconfigure processes to produce more jet which results in a reduction of something else (likely diesel). As jet production increases, the cost of production increases and the cost of other items decrease. BUT...if the increase in jet fuel produces more waste then that exponentially increases the cost of jet production.

Eliminating fossil fuels would cause things like...lululemon yoga pants to go from $100 to $100's. Anything stretchy has materials from cracked hydrocarbons (C and H).

Oil refining HATES emissions and waste...or they should. That's money being thrown away as wasted molecules AND paying to store and manage waste not to mention the compliance costs.

I think there will be a choice of fuel in the future. The choices will depend on factors specific to a certain region/location. And most modes of transportation will have more than 1 method of propulsion. I also think we've passed the peak of automotive enthusiasm.

But this is a little off-topic isn't it?

[stephen]

IMO, if it is not a small, sporty coupe or roadster with a cool engine in the front, 3 pedals with a manual gearbox in the middle and a limited slip diff out back, it might as well be electric.

Really not a Porsche fan I guess

[Slideways]

IMO, if it is not a small, sporty coupe or roadster with a cool engine in the front, 3 pedals with a manual gearbox in the middle and a limited slip diff out back, it might as well be electric.

[simonnim]

Electric cars are very convenient if you think about it. As long as you aren't planning to drive across country. Since energy storage for remote areas will be challenging, especially servicing them.

But for everyday use. You charge the car at home. You can turn the heat on remotely without gas fumes smoking up your garage. You can remote open the garage door and have the car back itself out of tight spaces. 250 miles per charge is enough for most metropolitan residents to reach an airport to travel further distances. I don't think unless it's a planned road trip have I ever desired to drive longer than 3-4 hours at once anymore, unless I'm going to buy some car parts.

The noises are also an upside. There are some days or after a long day at work where I just don't want to feel engine rumble or exhaust. Drive unit replacement is also a lot more simple than dropping an engine and making a giant mess.

There will be 'passion' electric cars for the new generation or ones who want to move on as well.

I have a neighbor with a model T who loves it. It's immaculate. But even he admits that it's more just because he thinks it's cool. Takes it out about once a year for a car show.

My next daily is definitely going to be plug in hybrid or electric, but more than likely electric. It won't be anytime soon...but, as time moves more quickly the older you get (or seems) it'll probably be sooner than I hope for. Im definitely no getting another gas powered daily.

[CrisSilberGrau]

I think the whole concept of internal combustion is more romantic than functional in 2023. Regardless of where you fall on the innovational spectrum, it only takes one time in a Tesla, Rivian or even Ford Lightning to understand the future of daily transportation. E36, e39, e46.. shit, even the e90 (which I think is noisy and numb) will provide an experience you would not otherwise have, if driving does something more than transportation for you. Cammisa is still an influencer; a good one at that.

Oh wow I did not expect that.

Driven only the Tesla model S and 3, has them both for a few days. I don't call them cars but more "people movers". The experiences were both years apart. The only place they make sense is the city for me, downtown Toronto they're great cause I can care less about the shit roads and the suspension getting fucked. But man, it's a soul sucking experience even at that. I guess you focused heavily on the daily transportation there, even then I'd happily take a first gen X5 with maybe some hybridity. Yah, electric is definitely not for me, not even close.

[siamkazi]

It was clear to me as early as the early 2000's when brushless r/c cars and LiPo's became popular. They were instantly faster than nitro. There is just no reason anymore to run a nitro car unless you like tinkering and enjoy the sound/smell - electric is better in every way possible. It took another 10 years for full-size cars to catch on but the same principles are true.

Holy moly, never put that together. Oddly enough my first R/C car was an E46 shell, loved going to the hobby shop.

[cobra]

I think the whole concept of internal combustion is more romantic than functional in 2023. Regardless of where you fall on the innovational spectrum, it only takes one time in a Tesla, Rivian or even Ford Lightning to understand the future of daily transportation. E36, e39, e46.. shit, even the e90 (which I think is noisy and numb) will provide an experience you would not otherwise have, if driving does something more than transportation for you. Cammisa is a still influencer; a good one at that.

It was clear to me as early as the early 2000's when brushless r/c cars and LiPo's became popular. They were instantly faster than nitro. There is just no reason anymore to run a nitro car unless you like tinkering and enjoy the sound/smell - electric is better in every way possible. It took another 10 years for full-size cars to catch on but the same principles are true.

[nyc951]

I think the whole concept of internal combustion is more romantic than functional in 2023. Regardless of where you fall on the innovational spectrum, it only takes one time in a Tesla, Rivian or even Ford Lightning to understand the future of daily transportation. E36, e39, e46.. shit, even the e90 (which I think is noisy and numb) will provide an experience you would not otherwise have, if driving does something more than transportation for you. Cammisa is a still influencer; a good one at that.

Agreed. It’s like a dinner with your spouse on a special occasion. Do you want to cook it in a microwave or on the grill/stove and smell the ingredients, feel the heat from the pan, hear the meat sizzle, modulate the flame so it cooks just right…. Most nights require something quick from Chipotle or the like, but sometimes a little something more is welcomed.

[02_lsb]

I think the whole concept of internal combustion is more romantic than functional in 2023. Regardless of where you fall on the innovational spectrum, it only takes one time in a Tesla, Rivian or even Ford Lightning to understand the future of daily transportation. E36, e39, e46.. shit, even the e90 (which I think is noisy and numb) will provide an experience you would not otherwise have, if driving does something more than transportation for you. Cammisa is still an influencer; a good one at that.

[D-O]

Very few cars under a 100k draw my attention like the E46 M3.

And this.

[D-O]

I think the E46 is the best looking which is a major factor, all facts aside. It's the perfect blend of boxy, bulbous, muscular, etc. that just makes it look great even 23 years later.

This. It's the Grace Kelly of automobiles.

[usdmej]

I think the E46 is the best looking which is a major factor, all facts aside. It's the perfect blend of boxy, bulbous, muscular, etc. that just makes it look great even 23 years later.

this is what's kept me from getting an E9X over the years, Bangle's flame surface styling really stole a whole generation of greatness from BMW on looks alone

[oceansize]

I think the E46 is the best looking which is a major factor, all facts aside. It's the perfect blend of boxy, bulbous, muscular, etc. that just makes it look great even 23 years later.

Very few cars under a 100k draw my attention like the E46 M3.