Tested and Ready 70° and 75° Thermostat

[George Hill]

colder just makes more power. There’s a big difference in torque

https://youtu.be/q0t29ScyLvw?si=xPt_vvbm4gcgDr2Z

Love RH videos, he does about as good as anyone could expect with real back to back testing.

[Anri]

Digger,

Endless cases were people take advantages from lower t-stat
are in every car brand. Engine Dyno, chassis dyno, track list
goes on and on..

Sapote has very wrong concept what the meaning of "Running-Cold"
means. How much heat S54 generates and the issues of running
hot on Bank-2...

May be I should cancel this in order to have more S54s with upcoming head
gasket failure...on Bank-2, keep them coming baby keep them coming
I don't mind them all...every head gasket failure is all welcomed :-)

Regards,
Anri

[digger]

Well, if we want to use this example as the proof, then the gain in HP is only happened at around 3300rpm, and nothing to gain above 5000 rpm for this engine.
Btw, he also pointed out that the air fuel mixture was optimized at the beginning which was the 116F run. What happened if he tuned the mixture for the 180F run? Not a fair comparison isn't it?

We all agree that cold air give more power, but it's not a good idea to keep the engine cold in order to have cold intake air, as cold engine block robs power (it is physics). Someone should be using cooled intake manifold instead.

There was a gain at all rpm just less at higher rpm compared to gains at lower prm and not a zero gain which makes perfect sense. It certainly doesnt show that hotter makes more power like you claim.
The fuel and timing was optimised for each run not just for the first run thats just silly if youve seen Richard's videos he always does that and its why he uses a standalone ecu.

Nobody is saying to keep the water cold and you gain 50hp but running it cooler is better for power. 70c on the skin is not fun so its not actually cold it’s just colder than 90-100c. also rubber and plastic bits are sure to last better

there are other videos but they are behind a paywall so cant view them anymore

[sapote]

colder just makes more power. There’s a big difference in torque

https://youtu.be/q0t29ScyLvw?si=xPt_vvbm4gcgDr2Z

Well, if we want to use this example as the proof, then the gain in HP is only happened at around 3300rpm, and nothing to gain above 5000 rpm for this engine.
Btw, he also pointed out that the air fuel mixture was optimized at the beginning which was the 116F run. What happened if he tuned the mixture for the 180F run? Not a fair comparison isn't it?

We all agree that cold air give more power, but it's not a good idea to keep the engine cold in order to have cold intake air, as cold engine block robs power (it is physics). Someone should be using cooled intake manifold instead.

[Anri]

colder just makes more power. There’s a big difference in torque

https://youtu.be/q0t29ScyLvw?si=xPt_vvbm4gcgDr2Z

Digger,

I realized we are wasting time and energy here...

Regards,
Anri

[digger]

That’s the function of air intake, not the coolant.

colder just makes more power. There’s a big difference in torque

https://youtu.be/q0t29ScyLvw?si=xPt_vvbm4gcgDr2Z

[oceansize]

While there are some "hillbillys" in drag racing (just like every form of motorsports), when you are running at these levels and ARE competitive it takes a pretty sharp individual with a VERY large check book. Comparing those cars would be more in line with comparing to a GT4 car. *I just wanted to note this because if you try to tell Sapote my data came from hillbillys he's really going to dismiss it (not that he probably wouldn't anyways).

I love hillbillys . My entire family from top to bottom qualifies and their ingenuity is unsurpassed. Necessity is the mother of all invention applies.

[sapote]

it has been mentioned already, its higher air density when cooler

That’s the function of air intake, not the coolant.

[George Hill]

George Hill gave you the example but you did not catch it, those Hillbilly with no regulations for quarter mile they don't care how much fuel they burn...those 8-9Litre push rod engines producing 1200-1400hp in NA form make the F1 engine kinder garden and those FI engines making 3500-4500hp puts F1 engine into trash bin..

LoL, Anri has definitely spent some time in the South cause that statement is the truth.

While there are some "hillbillys" in drag racing (just like every form of motorsports), when you are running at these levels and ARE competitive it takes a pretty sharp individual with a VERY large check book. Comparing those cars would be more in line with comparing to a GT4 car. *I just wanted to note this because if you try to tell Sapote my data came from hillbillys he's really going to dismiss it (not that he probably wouldn't anyways).

[oceansize]

gave you the example but you did not catch it,
those Hillbilly with no regulations for quarter mile they
don't care how much fuel they burn...

LoL, Anri has definitely spent some time in the South cause that statement is the truth.

[Anri]

I don't see how a 70C engine helps in giving more power -- cool cylinder walls rob the heat (and power) off the combustion gas as the delta temp is higher. I love to hear the reason for better power with 70C cool engine.

The modern cars with mapped Tstat lower the coolant temp to avoid micro-boiling around the exhaust valves during high load, but they don't operate around 70C most of the time as someone just replace a stock Tstat with a 70C Tstat.

Sapote,

I believe you are ignoring a lot of data said so far.

Inline-6 cooling design and the negatives, cast iron
block with aluminum head, coolant path, detonation and, combustion
chamber temp vs coolant, actual material like piston, cast iron actual temp,
conditions and engine will keeps the most efficient tolerances, exhaust
valves temperature transferring to the seat, cast aluminum head max temp
were it will turn soft..ignoring the fact that every single road car is emission
regulated and NoX must meet standards, period.

cool cylinder walls rob the heat

I believe you false the meaning "Cool" EGT of 1200-1500F in
some cases, this is by any mean absolutely not "Cool". Your example on
the F1 engine is not constructive at all. You are forgetting that F1 engine
is also after fuel economy no F1 team wants to carry 20kg more fuel..
To start F1 engine the water and coolant must be pre-heated to 60°C
and the still needs warm up period all of that to work with hi engine
temps, in their case the Hi temp has nothing to do with the HP which
I believe you are mixing the package.

George Hill gave you the example but you did not catch it,
those Hillbilly with no regulations for quarter mile they
don't care how much fuel they burn...those 8-9Litre push rod engines
producing 1200-1400hp in NA form make the F1 engine kinder garden
and those FI engines making 3500-4500hp puts F1 engine into trash
bin..


As George suggested I can build you 105°C thermostat and your
operating temp will be like exact on F1 engines and lets go to the race
track and check your data on the straight line max speed and enjoy
the low speed due to massive detonation....


The best Teacher of how it works is when one starts to push limits
and you really see what works and what it doesn't, on theory is easy..

Regards
Anri

[George Hill]

I guess for these engines there is no radiator and so this is to make sure the whole block is cold enough for not getting overheated during the race. This is not related to the subject of cooler engine is good for power though.

We are talking about engines that make 2000+hp, but still it DOES make more power. And no this is not to keep them from overheating, yes that is a by product but not the ONLY reason.

When I was into american V8s we had my 468ci pontiac engine on the dyno and we were making back to back pulls with consistent numbers, we then cooled the water temp down, made a pull and it picked up power. (they were showing me how you can manipulate dyno numbers by the way it is operated, we also picked up power by sitting the RPM right below peak for a few seconds before starting the pull).

Maybe Anri can make you a 100*c tstat and you can report back on how much better it is?

[digger]

I don't see how a 70C engine helps in giving more power -- cool cylinder walls rob the heat (and power) off the combustion gas as the delta temp is higher. I love to hear the reason for better power with 70C cool engine.

The modern cars with mapped Tstat lower the coolant temp to avoid micro-boiling around the exhaust valves during high load, but they don't operate around 70C most of the time as someone just replace a stock Tstat with a 70C Tstat.

it has been mentioned already, its higher air density when cooler

[sapote]

Yep as mentioned lower coolant temp and higher oil temp up to a point is ideal from a power perspective. On my last engine build the OE thermostat that was in the car would operate around 70-72C for whatever reason, when I replaced the cooling system on my latest build it runs “correctly” at 80-82C now. Always wish I could get that old (worn?) thermostat back.

I’ve actually started collecting parts to run an electric pump, have The CNC blockoff plate and was going to PWM control a Pierburg EWP in the Emtron ECU. Using closed loop you can easily target 65-70C under load and 85-90c during cruise and idle for efficiency for example. New OE performance cars (Porsche etc) do exactly this using electronic thermostats and EWPs, often running close to 100-105c at light load and dump the coolant temp when being driven hard and/or in Sport/Track mode.

I looked into a custom thermostat as well but looked troublesome. If this happens I may just ditch the EWP project for simplicity!

I don't see how a 70C engine helps in giving more power -- cool cylinder walls rob the heat (and power) off the combustion gas as the delta temp is higher. I love to hear the reason for better power with 70C cool engine.

The modern cars with mapped Tstat lower the coolant temp to avoid micro-boiling around the exhaust valves during high load, but they don't operate around 70C most of the time as someone just replace a stock Tstat with a 70C Tstat.

[sapote]

When I was helping with the drag race cars Mid/upper 4's in the 1/8th mile (not BMW), we would connect the cooling system to refrigerated cooling system which would get the coolant down to near freezing. It would not be uncommon to have the blocks sweating because they were so cold when we would pull them to the starting line.

I guess for these engines there is no radiator and so this is to make sure the whole block is cold enough for not getting overheated during the race. This is not related to the subject of cooler engine is good for power though.