H&R springs or Eibach springs?

[01SG]

Lowering springs are rarely an advised method of lowering a car.

Do you know what roll center correction is?

When done correctly, there are no inherent drawbacks of lowering a car, and some definite positives.

I think there are surely still drawbacks on the road, and as I referenced, that's the "more" I was referring to. But I'm not in a position to argue that point.

Either way, I should have added context to my original comment, but this thread is about lowering springs and street cars, and that is the application I was thinking of. Not high dollar coilovers.

[cobra]

The 3DM Ohlins "TrackDay" Suspension Kit spring rates as 400/630 front/rear. Does this sound like a good solution for a mostly street driven full-weight M3 or would someone recommend different spring rates?

Mike

It's a bit stiff in front relative to the rear. I think a 350/630 combo is closer to ideal for me.

[9kracing]

I have no issues despite them not being 'flat ride'

From what I've heard other members are happy with stock rates as well.

[nuc1]

The 3DM Ohlins "TrackDay" Suspension Kit spring rates as 400/630 front/rear. Does this sound like a good solution for a mostly street driven full-weight M3 or would someone recommend different spring rates?

Mike

[Thrifty S50]

While I dont have any experience with the Eibach springs, I have no complaints with the HR sport springs. Has a good stance, and ride is not overly stiff on the street. Sure, it could be lower, but when drifting and the suspension is fully loaded, it tucks nicely and I havent had any rubbing, front or rear, on 18x10's square. I also dont have to worry about getting in and out of driveways.

[9kracing]

Lowering springs are rarely an advised method of lowering a car.

Do you know what roll center correction is?

When done correctly, there are no inherent drawbacks of lowering a car, and some definite positives.

[01SG]

Is this a serious question?

Google 'center of gravity'

Do you really think a slightly lower center of gravity outweighs the myriad drawbacks of lowering a car? For street use? Been there, done that. Lowered cars suck on the road, and it takes a lot more than crappy lowering springs to make it work on the track.

[9kracing]

As to being the go-to, who even started the whole idea that lowering was so great for the car? Companies selling springs?

Is this a serious question?

Google 'center of gravity'

[dukeofchen]

I'm not sure how much time any of these major companies actually spend on individual applications. I wonder if they ever even thought that far about it.

As to being the go-to, who even started the whole idea that lowering was so great for the car? Companies selling springs?

I certainly don't dispute that lowering is more of an aesthetic choice, and one that creates the type of tradeoffs that require more modification to mitigate.

But with regards to our cars I imagine it became so because Konis are an affordable replacement for tired OE shocks/struts with slight adjustability, and Eibach is the path of least resistance to achieve a mild drop on a car that has a bigger wheel/fender gap than most of us want.

Upon further thought I'm going to revisit the settings on my fronts, as perhaps a stiffer than average setting would go a ways to mitigate some of the bouncing and chassis shattering impacts from full compression scenarios. I've been mostly thinking about bump stops and ways to increase suspension travel but that's probably the first place to start. A lot of general advice or discussions in the 20+ years of archives have come from the angle of dialing it towards OE-like stiffness for 99% of drivetime scenarios, whereas the thing that bugs me most is the 1%.

[01SG]

Which leads me to think that maybe Eibach determined that there wasn't a drop spring + bump stop solution that worked well enough to hit a sweet spot on our cars, and in the absence of one advising to leave as-is was less liability for them whereas a decent compromise can be found with applications to other suspensions.

Funny how Koni / Eibach has been the go-to for so long as a no-brainer upgrade, but after all these years we find that it's a pretty significant tradeoff to get that mild drop. Maybe we're all just getting old.

I'm not sure how much time any of these major companies actually spend on individual applications. I wonder if they ever even thought that far about it.

As to being the go-to, who even started the whole idea that lowering was so great for the car? Companies selling springs?

[JokerElite]

Yeah, I may still end up trimming them slightly as a personal experiment. My car is a 100% street daily, so even if it's not optimal on the limit realistically I'm never close to that limit anyways.

Seems the real answer to regain that travel is camber plates, but given I have no other practical reason for them, that'll probably wait until I have a wheel setup that necessitates them.

Which leads me to think that maybe Eibach determined that there wasn't a drop spring + bump stop solution that worked well enough to hit a sweet spot on our cars, and in the absence of one advising to leave as-is was less liability for them whereas a decent compromise can be found with applications to other suspensions.

Funny how Koni / Eibach has been the go-to for so long as a no-brainer upgrade, but after all these years we find that it's a pretty significant tradeoff to get that mild drop. Maybe we're all just getting old.

It's definitely an “old” move haha. Funny you say this because when I first got the car I was peer pressured into lowering it, as it was the culture at the time, eventually I gave in and realized it wasn't for me. It's also only for street use and the roads aren't great around here.

[dukeofchen]

I ended up ditching the B12 kit for Sachs with factory springs because of the crashiness as you mentioned. Loved the way it looked and handled but the medium and larger bumps took away from the enjoyability. I also wonder if that magic bumpstop dimension exists lolol

Yeah, I may still end up trimming them slightly as a personal experiment. My car is a 100% street daily, so even if it's not optimal on the limit realistically I'm never close to that limit anyways.

Seems the real answer to regain that travel is camber plates, but given I have no other practical reason for them, that'll probably wait until I have a wheel setup that necessitates them.

Which leads me to think that maybe Eibach determined that there wasn't a drop spring + bump stop solution that worked well enough to hit a sweet spot on our cars, and in the absence of one advising to leave as-is was less liability for them whereas a decent compromise can be found with applications to other suspensions.

Funny how Koni / Eibach has been the go-to for so long as a no-brainer upgrade, but after all these years we find that it's a pretty significant tradeoff to get that mild drop. Maybe we're all just getting old.

[JokerElite]

Yeah to my knowledge Eibach themselves provide guidance on bump stops for spring applications to other cars, but in my searches I haven't come across an official confirmation either way for our platform.

Given they're very slightly stiffer than stock, maybe they aimed to compensate for the drop all else the same? I guess at the end of the day it's unreasonable to apply lowering springs in isolation and expect a 1:1 ride. This setup is the only one I've known the entire time I've owned the car, but the crashiness has never sat right with me.

Anyone out there want to bench test the least sexy aftermarket combination for our cars? It's always been a burning question in my mind even if the actual answer is to cut 0.5mm 😂

I ended up ditching the B12 kit for Sachs with factory springs because of the crashiness as you mentioned. Loved the way it looked and handled but the medium and larger bumps took away from the enjoyability. I also wonder if that magic bumpstop dimension exists lolol

[Chas3n]

Vastly superior in what way?

Overall performance and longevity of suspension components.

Spring rates are correct for flat ride
Ride height range is correct for suspension arms


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[9kracing]

Eibachs are vastly superior to H&R's

Vastly superior in what way?