S54 BMW Cam Timing Tool vs aftermarket

[sapote]

Yes, standing in front of the engine the pins are in essence like this / / (exaggerated of course)

.

// forward slash and not backward slash?

So both cams are advanced compared to if the pin is standing 90 degrees?

[bmwfnatic]

“off by 1 degree towards the exhaust side”
You meant the cams would be more retarded compared to if the pin is a perfect 90 degrees?
Do you have a carpenter square, and a rod or drill bit that fit snug in the cam holes?

Please do this: find a drill bit or a rod that fits in the bride holes snug (the supplied pins are too short), and have 3” or more of the bit above the hole (longer is better for accuracy). Then have a 90* steel carpenter tool aligned to the bridge beam and touches the drill bit base. There is a divergent angle formed by the drill and the carpenter tool if the drilled holes are not true to 90*. Use a caliper to measure the gap at the highest position of the drill bit and measure the height at this position also. With the gap and the height we can calculate the angle.

Yes, standing in front of the engine the pins are in essence like this / / (exaggerated of course)

Your method of measurement is pretty much the same as what I did, basic pythagorean theorem to solve for the angle.

Even if you just remove the engine from the equation, and insert the pin into the bridge, you can tell with the naked eye it’s not at 90. Simply holding the carpenter square on the bottom of the bridge propped up against the base of the pin coming out of the hole also reveals the angle.

[sapote]

It seems to be off by 1 degree towards the exhaust side, for both cams.

“off by 1 degree towards the exhaust side”
You meant the cams would be more retarded compared to if the pin is a perfect 90 degrees?
Do you have a carpenter square, and a rod or drill bit that fit snug in the cam holes?

Please do this: find a drill bit or a rod that fits in the bride holes snug (the supplied pins are too short), and have 3” or more of the bit above the hole (longer is better for accuracy). Then have a 90* steel carpenter tool aligned to the bridge beam and touches the drill bit base. There is a divergent angle formed by the drill and the carpenter tool if the drilled holes are not true to 90*. Use a caliper to measure the gap at the highest position of the drill bit and measure the height at this position also. With the gap and the height we can calculate the angle.

[bmwfnatic]

Yeah, I measured this way on the stock VANOS timing before removing the hubs and re-drilled the disk smaller holes. This method works for me when I needed to remove the chain sprockets multiple times.
Just curios of the cam timing holes angles -- true 90* or not.

Update on this, got my cam tool back.

Just let me be clear I used some primitive methods for measuring this, I unfortunately do not have insanely accurate measuring equipment, so it would be nice if some others could chime in so we can get a consensus not just based on only my tool and measurements.

But from what I can see, it is definitely NOT true 90. It seems to be off by 1 degree towards the exhaust side, for both cams.

Thinking about this, it makes sense, otherwise why would the tool be labeled “A” and “E”, if it were true 90, this wouldn’t matter.

[bmwfnatic]

Yeah, I measured this way on the stock VANOS timing before removing the hubs and re-drilled the disk smaller holes. This method works for me when I needed to remove the chain sprockets multiple times.
Just curios of the cam timing holes angles -- true 90* or not.

I think it would make the most sense if they are, going to measure this for the sake of science later. I have a genuine BMW bridge.

[sapote]

I’m going to say if you’ve done this multiple times not using the special tool & have had no CEL after you’ve got it figured out. I don’t put any value on vanos adaptations & have no idea what mine are.

Yeah, I measured this way on the stock VANOS timing before removing the hubs and re-drilled the disk smaller holes. This method works for me when I needed to remove the chain sprockets multiple times.
Just curios of the cam timing holes angles -- true 90* or not.

[Savageblunder]

I would do this: find a drill bit or a rod that fits in the bride holes snug (the supplied pins are too short), and have 3” or more of the bit above the hole (longer is better for accuracy). Then have a 90* steel carpenter tool aligned to the bridge beam and touches the drill bit base. There is a divergent angle formed by the drill and the carpenter tool if the drilled holes are not true to 90*. Use a caliper to measure the gap at the highest position of the drill bit and measure the height at this position also. With the gap and the height we can calculate the angle.

Tried to do this, but could find nothing I had in hand that fit snug enough & that was long enough to do this. I’m going to say if you’ve done this multiple times not using the special tool & have had no CEL after you’ve got it figured out. I don’t put any value on vanos adaptations & have no idea what mine are.

[sapote]

I would measure it, but not sure how to accurately do it to get a measurement more precise than the obvious 90°

I would do this: find a drill bit or a rod that fits in the bride holes snug (the supplied pins are too short), and have 3” or more of the bit above the hole (longer is better for accuracy). Then have a 90* steel carpenter tool aligned to the bridge beam and touches the drill bit base. There is a divergent angle formed by the drill and the carpenter tool if the drilled holes are not true to 90*. Use a caliper to measure the gap at the highest position of the drill bit and measure the height at this position also. With the gap and the height we can calculate the angle.

[sapote]

It is impossible for aftermarket timing tools to be so misaligned that the bridge sits in place and touches two points on the cylinder head, while both pins insert smoothly into the camshafts, and the plane is still aligned. The tool would have to be extremely off and visibly crooked to the naked eye

I see, but this hasn't happened yet for the aftermarket tools.

[BMWfanz]

I don’t understand the advantages of having 2 pins vs 1 here.

It is impossible for aftermarket timing tools to be so misaligned that the bridge sits in place and touches two points on the cylinder head, while both pins insert smoothly into the camshafts, and the plane is still aligned. The tool would have to be extremely off and visibly crooked to the naked eye

[sapote]

Actually aftermarket tool has 2 pins, if you use it- there are very little possibility to misinstall cams like on the video with exhaust side.

I don’t understand the advantages of having 2 pins vs 1 here.

[BMWfanz]

Actually aftermarket tool has 2 pins, if you use it- there are very little possibility to misinstall cams like on the video with exhaust side.

[sapote]

How many engines have you timed like this?

Just my car.

[Slideways]

I’m interested of measuring the pin to beam angle of the EX and IN sides, as I don’t own the tool and only use a caliper and drill bit for the job.

How many engines have you timed like this?

[Savageblunder]

I’m interested of measuring the pin to beam angle of the EX and IN sides, as I don’t own the tool and only use a caliper and drill bit for the job.

I would measure it, but not sure how to accurately do it to get a measurement more precise than the obvious 90°. B it I don’t think it’s that simple. Let’s assume it’s 90°, that would in theory make the tool symmeteical & there would be no need to have an “intake” & “exhaust” side of the tool.

The aftermarket tool looks 90° as well, but does not fit as well as the BMW. Quite frankly, to me it feels like a engineer reversed engineered the BMW tool (along with many other manufacturer specialty tools), but it never was checked on the actual engine to verify it is correct.