Opened engine to find my worst nightmare... advice needed.

[SteelGreyM]

It seems you're dead set on building this motor out. I am on the side of "this is too risky" and you'd be better off buying a motor from a wreck. As cool as it is to build your own motor, there is no safer bet than a factory sealed motor with mileage. You will have much better chances buying a used motor, swapping the rod bearings with new ones, and bolting it up versus going down this road of a "Lang motor on a budget". I am viewing this from the perspective that you've presented, being "I am in college and don't have a ton of money for this" which I read as "I have very little room for error if this fucks up."

Mpartsworldwide is based out of NJ and always has an S54 or 2 from a totaled chassis. They are fair with good prices. I believe the last one I saw they sold was $5k for a complete engine.

Albino09 presents a solid argument, and I completely agree. But I have to say, I admire the fire of tackling a massive project on a whim. You sir are going to learn a lot!

Honestly guys I know this isn't the "safest" idea but I have confidence that I can get it done right and well. I certainly have learned so much already solely from research, speaking with people on forums, and my excellent machine shop. And about the lang motor on a budget - It is exactly the lang motor just that im building it myself. (minus their 5 angle valve job and new oil pump)

I understand I look kinda silly. It's not that I dont have money to spend on my car but I just dont want to spend tons of money on it. I have met a lot of car people over the years that bankrupt themselves with their car and I just dont want to be that person. It seems so miserable. Im going one step at a time and doing research. This will end up being a quality job

[cbean]

Albino09 presents a solid argument, and I completely agree. But I have to say, I admire the fire of tackling a massive project on a whim. You sir are going to learn a lot!

[Albino09]

It seems you're dead set on building this motor out. I am on the side of "this is too risky" and you'd be better off buying a motor from a wreck. As cool as it is to build your own motor, there is no safer bet than a factory sealed motor with mileage. You will have much better chances buying a used motor, swapping the rod bearings with new ones, and bolting it up versus going down this road of a "Lang motor on a budget". I am viewing this from the perspective that you've presented, being "I am in college and don't have a ton of money for this" which I read as "I have very little room for error if this fucks up."

Mpartsworldwide is based out of NJ and always has an S54 or 2 from a totaled chassis. They are fair with good prices. I believe the last one I saw they sold was $5k for a complete engine.

[SteelGreyM]

This may be a silly question but can I use the stock tune with the same CR but slightly bigger cylinder?

I will be going to either 87.25mm or 87.5mm cyl diameter (not sure yet). CR will stay the same (11.5:1)

[R1pilot]

Did your sparkplug electrode broke off and fell into the cylinder?

It sure looks like the electrode is broken and missing on that plug.

[SteelGreyM]

Well the engine is finally out. Of course I had to pick the hottest day of the year so far to do it. A forum member and personal friend of mine came and helped a ton. Couldn’t have done it without him.

And for those wondering it’s absolutely 100% possible to pull an engine without draining a single thing from the AC. I removed the power steering lines from the condenser at the right side. Then just swung the condenser upwards and rested it on the left strut mount area. Then right before pulling the engine just unbolt the compressor from the block and pull it down to rest on the sway bar or zip tie it up somewhere. Just keep it upright.

I’ll be posting major milestones here and some updates. I don’t want to make this a build journal but I figuired id put some updates occasionally for those that are interested. If anyone wants me to measure any engine internals or check something let me know!

[bigjae46]

I recommend getting a known good used S54. Pull the oil pan and valve cover. Check the oil pump, cam lobes, VANOS and boroscope the cylinders through the spark plug holes. Then do the S54 lockdown (VANOS, Rod Bearings) and don't forget about the CPV o-ring. Replace the gaskets (oil pan, valve cover, OFH, rear main, check the front main and front timing cover). If something is not working like a water pump, just swap from your old engine.

Then part out your old engine. That will cover a good chunk of buying the used engine. You can sell the crank, oil pan/pump, VANOS, and OFH within a week and probably make at least $2k back as long as you're pricing things to sell...not trying to get ///M pricing.

[beefaroni]

make sure you have an EXCELLENT shop doing the work (as in not "my friends friend said joe at 'block and rebuild' is good, he's done hundreds of ls1's" type of excellent) and you will probably be okay.

This resonates....

I had a friend of a friend of a friend who builds circle track racing V8s do the bottom end work on my turbo M20 E30. I asked him what ring gap he was going to use and advised him that since this will be FI it needs to be wider than stock spec. He said "oh well I always use .055 x the bore size on the top ring etc. etc (or something like that). and that always works out fine for circle track race engines " I strongly advised him to just ensure that it was wider than stock.

That bottom end lasted a little over 500 miles until the rings buckled and cracked. Upon teardown I checked the build sheet again. Yep, ended up being on the tight end of the factory spec for a stock (non FI) engine.

:sigh:

Good luck OP. Make 2020 great again!

[SteelGreyM]

Just risk. Boring, re-honing, all new pistons and the fact that your head is questionable (your block head not your human head as far as I know) is just adding more risk if the work is not done flawlessly. Totally up to you, nothing wrong either way but make sure you have an EXCELLENT shop doing the work (as in not "my friends friend said joe at 'block and rebuild' is good, he's done hundreds of ls1's" type of excellent) and you will probably be okay. Good luck either way,, blown S54's are not fun!

Thank you for the luck! I'll need it! My actual head is just as messed up as my cylinder head trust me on that lol

I will actually be assembling the engine myself. I have an excellent shop to do all the machine work. They will also check out my rods and crank t make sure everything there is good. After the block is re bored to spec ill be using a dial bore gauge to double check their work. Plastiguage will be used to check main bearing clearances. And feeler gauges will be used to check piston ring clearances. Thankfully theres TONS of information online to help me along the way not to mention BMW TIS has all the official DIY's, tightening torques, and clearances.

I also stumbled upon 50s kid engine rebuild series today. He actually did the EXACT same thing im doing on his m54. Obviously its a different engine but the concept are the same. The teardown from the block down is nearly identical (where it matters at least). He got his block bored and honed, changed all rod and main bearings, new pistons and rings. And the whole time he showed off checking his clearances. I mean think about it... if everything (clearances) checks out to be good, what the hell could actually go wrong? Ive done a ton of reading and research on the topic. As bimmerfan08 said: the hard work (the engineering) has already been done. All I need to do is follow the instructions.

oh ya and im getting a new head... for the car at least

[Icecream]

Wouldn’t the little nick at the top of the cylinder be repaired with a slight boring and re-honing? It’s not like a rod went through or something. That’s it the only damage to the block really. Yes there is a little scuff between the cylinders but the block will be sanded on top either way which will surely take care of it.

I will have a definite answer about the nick on the cylinder head after bringing the block to a machine shop.

the main reasoning I have for rebuilding instead of getting a new block is because I’m now going with new pistons and rings. I will essentially have the same setup as a Lang long block except I’m doing the work myself and saving most of the money. My rods and crank are perfect (will be verified at machine shop). Going this route will end up being cheaper than a new engine either way. If it comes down to needing a new block for sure I can look into the new engine option but for now I think all this can be fixed with a small re bore and the CP pistons.

And of course I’ll be checking the machine shops work with a dial bore gauge along will piston ring clearances, rod and main bearings clearances, and making sure I don’t need a thicker head gasket. That problem should be solved by the new head I’ll need.

unless I’m missing something. If more parts are damaged (such as crank, rods, valves, etc,) I will surely have to rethink the plan but for now I see no major reason not to go with this plan.

Just risk. Boring, re-honing, all new pistons and the fact that your head is questionable (your block head not your human head as far as I know) is just adding more risk if the work is not done flawlessly. Totally up to you, nothing wrong either way but make sure you have an EXCELLENT shop doing the work (as in not "my friends friend said joe at 'block and rebuild' is good, he's done hundreds of ls1's" type of excellent) and you will probably be okay. Good luck either way,, blown S54's are not fun!

[SteelGreyM]

Dude you are crazy trying to fix this. The cost will be almost the same as getting another engine (give or take $500-ish). Get a new block... toss it in, and call it a day. You need to be saving all of your money for a house, not dumping into this engine that MAY need additional parts .

I guess you’re right that it may need additional parts. If it comes down to that I’ll need to rethink the plan. But going this route of a full rebuild will certainly be over $1k cheaper than buying a straight up new engine.

[SteelGreyM]

Getting a good block and heads will be cheaper, smarter and more reliable than trying to salvage that one. If you wanted to 'build' a motor, then maybe use that one since you will be spending tons anyway and taking the risks with it. I am not an expert by any means once you start talking boring things out and rebuilding from the damage i see in the pics you are just going down a rabbit hole. You can probably find a good block near you head (with a spun bearing or something) for around 2k. Swap your crank over, new rod bearings and maybe a new head gasket for good measure and you're done for under $3000.

Wouldn’t the little nick at the top of the cylinder be repaired with a slight boring and re-honing? It’s not like a rod went through or something. That’s it the only damage to the block really. Yes there is a little scuff between the cylinders but the block will be sanded on top either way which will surely take care of it.

I will have a definite answer about the nick on the cylinder head after bringing the block to a machine shop.

the main reasoning I have for rebuilding instead of getting a new block is because I’m now going with new pistons and rings. I will essentially have the same setup as a Lang long block except I’m doing the work myself and saving most of the money. My rods and crank are perfect (will be verified at machine shop). Going this route will end up being cheaper than a new engine either way. If it comes down to needing a new block for sure I can look into the new engine option but for now I think all this can be fixed with a small re bore and the CP pistons.

And of course I’ll be checking the machine shops work with a dial bore gauge along will piston ring clearances, rod and main bearings clearances, and making sure I don’t need a thicker head gasket. That problem should be solved by the new head I’ll need.

unless I’m missing something. If more parts are damaged (such as crank, rods, valves, etc,) I will surely have to rethink the plan but for now I see no major reason not to go with this plan.

[x Spades x]

Dude you are crazy trying to fix this. The cost will be almost the same as getting another engine (give or take $500-ish). Get a new block... toss it in, and call it a day. You need to be saving all of your money for a house, not dumping into this engine that MAY need additional parts .

[sapote]

The chipped cylinder wall is above piston ring and so no issue. But from the photos I think here is what happened: gasket leaked between 2 cylinders which led to pre-detonation and damaged piston. The prolong hot exhaust gas leaking had been eating the thin section between cylinders on both block and head. This means they have to be measured and see if after resurface, the thickest head gasket is within spec or not. If not then you need another engine.

This detonation was caused by leaking gasket between cylinders and maybe not related to tuning.

[Icecream]

After doing all the math it turns out it will be cheaper actually because I will be doing all the labor myself.

Just got off the phone with Andrew at Lang ring to get his professional opinion. He suggested I get my block bored out slightly, upgrade to slightly oversized pistons that come with new rings (CP forged. Its the one they use all the time in their builds.) My rods and crank are fine so keep that. After that just go with OEM rod bearings and king main bearings (clearances checked of course). He also said that while my head may be salvageable, its not worth the time and money to find out and that I should just get a new one.

Doing this would negate the price I would pay for a fresh block (that may end up having problems!) and used pistons.

I know this is probably not the smartest and most reliable idea but im confident that this can turn out okay. Something inside is telling me to just go through with this plan.

Getting a good block and heads will be cheaper, smarter and more reliable than trying to salvage that one. If you wanted to 'build' a motor, then maybe use that one since you will be spending tons anyway and taking the risks with it. I am not an expert by any means once you start talking boring things out and rebuilding from the damage i see in the pics you are just going down a rabbit hole. You can probably find a good block near you head (with a spun bearing or something) for around 2k. Swap your crank over, new rod bearings and maybe a new head gasket for good measure and you're done for under $3000.