School me on fixed bucket seats and mounting solutions!

[zivagolee]

Also Cobra Nogaros— which Schroth will confirm if you don’t believe me :P
(because the Nogaros were put to that seat back strength test by schroth)

Ah, that’s great! I wonder if they tested any other seats ... like the ABE Recaros, etc

[Obioban]

This is making me nervous. What do you think about this? Is this more safer than having roll bar on the street?

Pic for example.

That looks like a pretty sketchy design, in general, from the perspective of strength in a crash.

Why not this? https://www.bkauto.com/R_1246_E46_Re...t_p/r-1246.htm

stronger mount points, nothing to hit with your body, cheaper, lighter, back seat functionality retained.

[Obioban]

Technically, the quickfits are only for stock seats.

Please note: These harnesses are designed to be used in stock seats that have passed a seat back strength test. Quick Fit harnesses are not approved for any fixed back or aftermarket seats. This harness is not compatible with HANS or any other head and neck restraint devices. If you plan on using a HANS, the Quick Fit Pro version is compatible.

Also Cobra Nogaros— which Schroth will confirm if you don’t believe me :P
(because the Nogaros were put to that seat back strength test by schroth)

[zivagolee]

I think that roll/harness bar is absolute garbage. What’s the point when you can get a Schroth quick fit?


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Technically, the quickfits are only for stock seats.

Please note: These harnesses are designed to be used in stock seats that have passed a seat back strength test. Quick Fit harnesses are not approved for any fixed back or aftermarket seats. This harness is not compatible with HANS or any other head and neck restraint devices. If you plan on using a HANS, the Quick Fit Pro version is compatible.

[bigjae46]

I think that roll/harness bar is absolute garbage. What’s the point when you can get a Schroth quick fit?


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[mrgreen387]

The ability to run the stock seatbelt properly is entirely dependent on the seat you choose. To be effective the lap belts need to be firmly pressed against you-- which generally means low sides on the belt pass through area.

I put most of my thoughts about this in this thread (lots of it applies to the situation even if you don't end up on those seats):

https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...ck-bucket-seat

I think the Nogaros are generally in a league of their own when it comes to streetable track seat. If I didn't run them, I'd probably run something like a sportster CS and an anti submarining 4 point.



This is bad information in several ways...
1) roll bars are quite dangerous to run on the street, making you net safety significantly worse
2) roll bars generally mean you have to trailer to the track (as you can no longer put a set of tires in the back seat), and trailering is dangerous
3) on track, roll bars help in certain accidents sometimes, if they well designed (rolling over), but can be significantly more dangerous if you go into a wall backwards or sideways
4) fixed back seats are no worse off than reclining seats in a roll, with or without a roll bar. See how you could get fixed back seats in this car stock, in the CSL (which has no roll bar).
5) a 4/5/6 point harness (assuming the 4 point is anti submarining, like the quick fit is (but not unique to it) is always MUCH safer in a crash
6) a 4/5/6 point harness enables the use of a hans device, which is hugely beneficial

I design vehicle safety systems for a living (albeit for military vehicles as of last year). I've given a ton of thought to this, because the situation applies to my own car. A fixed back seat/harness/hans setup provides a significantly safety improvement over stock, without decreasing the street safety or practicality of the car. Certainly it is not as safe a fully caged/fire supressed/etc race car. But, for many people that's a non starter-- and that doesn't mean they shouldn't make the car safer than stock. Roll bars... are often a net safety downgrade on track IMO, and always a significant decrease in street safety (and practicality).

This is making me nervous. What do you think about this? Is this more safer than having roll bar on the street?

Pic for example.

[Obioban]

Thanks!

Yeah I only turned off ERKENNUNG_SITZBELEGUNG_2 which is 'Occupancy Sensor 2', there's also ERKENNUNG_SITZBELEGUNG_1 which is 'Occupancy Sensor 1' which I assumed was for the drivers so didnt bother turning it off. Should I try setting that one to not_active as well?

And by reset the light, do you mean clear the fault codes with a fault code reading program? (I have INPA but use ECUWORX's MSS5x_DME_Utility_V1.0)

There is no driver side occupancy sensor – – they just assume there’s always a driver.

and yeah— clear the airbag light with INPA.

[BigRussia]

Looks great!

There’s two occupancy sensor things you have to turn off. I forget what the specific values are, but if you search the module on ncs dummy for occupancy they show up.

Then you have to reset the light, and you should be good to go.

Thanks!

Yeah I only turned off ERKENNUNG_SITZBELEGUNG_2 which is 'Occupancy Sensor 2', there's also ERKENNUNG_SITZBELEGUNG_1 which is 'Occupancy Sensor 1' which I assumed was for the drivers so didnt bother turning it off. Should I try setting that one to not_active as well?

And by reset the light, do you mean clear the fault codes with a fault code reading program? (I have INPA but use ECUWORX's MSS5x_DME_Utility_V1.0)

[Obioban]

Looks great!

There’s two occupancy sensor things you have to turn off. I forget what the specific values are, but if you search the module on ncs dummy for occupancy they show up.

Then you have to reset the light, and you should be good to go.

[BigRussia]

Following up with my results to help out anyone who might be doing this same install in the future, can use this thread as reference. Ill put pics, links, and wiring info in this post.

I was able to finish up the install of the PP ABEs w/ BK mounts and OEM power sliders. I am extremely pleased with everything! The seats feel fantastic and are actually quite comfortable, I no longer fall out of my seat during spirited driving and can actually feel what the car is doing during hard cornering. The ABE versions are definitely the move for a street car retaining the functionality and convenience of the factory 3 point belt; the receiver fits through the inboard hole perfectly and they even have elastic straps to hold it up, so it doesn't jam into your hips when getting in. And the BK mounts with the power sliders is icing on the cake, and perfect for a street car. I wish I had bought this setup earlier! I'm also going to be hitting a HPDE at the end of the month to truly test out the seats.

First, pics of the completed install:


Some info on the install:

For the wiring I ended up cutting the power and lower rail motor connectors off the seat harnesses to use for wiring up the E30 switch. Luckily, I was able to find two used E30 window switch wiring harnesses on eBay, so I was able to use the E30 window connector for the switch rather than having to directly wire to the switches pins. Also bought 2 new aftermarket non illuminated switches from pelicanparts.com. ($15 each, they actually ended up sending me 4 so have 2 extras, if anyone needs let me know)
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...-367-373-A-INT
I then crimped the E30 wiring harness with the power and rail motor connectors and wrapped it up with OEM style Tesa fabric tape (amazon link for fabric tape below)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

(passenger side pictured, the drivers side had a couple extra wires and different harnesses. Same concept, the extra wires I believe are for seat memory which you wont need anymore so can ignore or snip off like I did)



For the Recaro seat bolts I went with 20mm length Zinc Yellow-Chromate Plated Class 10.9 Steel M8 × 1.25 mm bolts from McMaster-Carr from bigjae46 recommendation. 20mm was the perfect length for my application and I used the included 2mm BK spacers between the mounts and seat.
https://www.mcmaster.com/metric-clas.../length~20-mm/
I forgot the washers so just got some zinc yellow chromate grade 8 ones on Amazon. Both the bolts and washers came next day surprisingly quick.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Lastly I now have the airbag fault light on the cluster, due to the passenger occupancy sensor. I have been attempting to disable it with NCS Expert, specifically by disabling the ERKENNUNG_SITZBELEGUNG_2 (= Occupancy Sensor 2) value in the ABG module, but no such luck I get an error when writing the .man file back to the ABG module and the airbag fault light remains on.
If anyone can advise me how to disable the airbag sensor in NCS I would greatly appreciate it! Worse case i guess I can buy a sensor bypass on ebay.. but not sure about those.

Hope this helps someone else in the future, I was kind of stumped with the wiring even though BK does an excellent job providing instructions for the mounts install and wiring, but Im just a wiring novice!

Thanks again for everyone in this thread for all the help and advice!

[bigjae46]

Man awesome info thank you! Yeah I wanted to make sure I get hardware that is rated for automotive safety in event of a crash but I had no idea what to even look for. Thank you for schooling me and the pics are super helpful to identify! I'll start searching on McMaster-Carr now, seems the recaro's use M8 bolts.

Yeah, that’s normal. Get a class 10.9 M8 bolt. You can use a grade 8 washer which is similar to class 10.9. A 3/8” grade 8 washer is gonna be a lot easier to find than a class 10.9 washer.


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[Obioban]

Damn,

I wish I got the ABE seats as well. I got the regular PPs here in the states. I ended up running the center rear seat belt buckle as a solution for now. Running the Recaro sliders and Macht Schnell floor mounts.

Edit: Even with sliders, it will be a pain to get something in the rear seat. I put my sons car seat through the trunk. LOL!

it looks like you're overly reclined. The headrests should be ~vertical for a proper seating position. Make that change and you'll gain better back seat access as a perk.

[BigRussia]

Here is what to look for when it comes to fasteners. It is important!

Grade 2 - its what you get at Home Depot in the bulk bins.

Here is a grade 5...3 marks on the head of the bolt.



Grade 8 (what you want) has 6 marks on top.



For metric bolts, you have Class 8.8 which is like grade 5 and Class 10.9 which is similar to grade 8.

Any washer or bolt should match in grade and material.

Man awesome info thank you! Yeah I wanted to make sure I get hardware that is rated for automotive safety in event of a crash but I had no idea what to even look for. Thank you for schooling me and the pics are super helpful to identify! I'll start searching on McMaster-Carr now, seems the recaro's use M8 bolts.

[bigjae46]

Here is what to look for when it comes to fasteners. It is important!

Grade 2 - its what you get at Home Depot in the bulk bins.

Here is a grade 5...3 marks on the head of the bolt.



Grade 8 (what you want) has 6 marks on top.



For metric bolts, you have Class 8.8 which is like grade 5 and Class 10.9 which is similar to grade 8.

Any washer or bolt should match in grade and material.

[slavik1988]

Hey all, a quick update. I ended up buying the Recaro PP ABE from the German eBay seller (came in less than 2 weeks!), along w/ a pair of BK mounts (R-9220/9221) to use with my oem power sliders.

I started the install finally today, but ran into a problem. Neither my new Recaros or the BK mount kits came with the actual seat hardware/bolts to install them to the mounts. Each seat needs 4 bolts, does anyone know where I can buy these online, or what their size and length is to maybe buy from ACE Hardware? Thanks!

Damn,

I wish I got the ABE seats as well. I got the regular PPs here in the states. I ended up running the center rear seat belt buckle as a solution for now. Running the Recaro sliders and Macht Schnell floor mounts.

Edit: Even with sliders, it will be a pain to get something in the rear seat. I put my sons car seat through the trunk. LOL!