Beisan S54 Exhaust Sprocket Hub Solution

[kaiv]

Plenty of things to like about Raj/Beisan. One of them is extended testing prior to releasing a product.
Here's a prototype Beisan hub in my car circa 2014

https://www.instagram.com/p/wfeGU1PTuR

[Albino09]

Wow, thank you for continuing to innovate and improve the product for our platform! If I hadn't already gone through my VANOS 3 years ago with your pump disc I would've certainly picked up a new hub while I was at it. Consider me a satisfied customer with 20k+ trouble-free miles after I put in the new pump disc.

[Arith2]

BTW from what I know, the VAC hub leaves .2mm hub tab to disk hole play. The Beisan disk leaves .05mm play. The original play is 1mm.

My VAC hub definitely doesn't have much play. It fit snug in a dented disk where broken tabs made it look pretty knarly. Even with extra play it was snug in that one. I now have another disk from a different engine and it's even tighter. It barely moved at all. If it was out or I had the valve cover off I'd measure it for you but next time. From what I've read, the S52 had half the clearance

VAC treated me very well and I ordered directly through them. They literally gave me next day shipping for free just because. Apparently other people have been done dirty by them. I think we need a vendor experience thread on here which I'm 100% Beisan has little no complaints. I don't have anything but good things to say and I've rebuilt two Vanos assemblies with those kits.

[bjz!]

Great job, Raj!

You should send me a few parts to Europe, to decrease the shipping times and delays of the customs! ☺ Hahahaha!

[eml]

If your hub tabs are not broken, there is no need to replace your hub. Once you install the Beisan oil pump disk with smaller holes, there is a 7 year 100% statistic that you will not experience a broken tab.
But if you insist on installing a new hub, you are correct that the Beisan hub, although with thicker tabs, does not have wider tabs, and will not remove the play with the OE disk large holes, and there will be hitting and possible rattling.

In my opinion, you should always install a new hub with a disk with new holes. This is needed to allow the hub tabs to mate and embed evenly into the new disk holes.This way you can be assured of the disk being turned by both tabs.
So many people have installed the TT or VAC hub to replace their hub with broken tab and used their old disk with old holes. This seems really crazy to me and I have not said anything about it, until now.
When a tab breaks, it always dents out the disk hole it breaks in. So, when a TT of VAC hub is installed with the old disk, only the hub tab in the undamaged disk hole contacts the disk hole side. The other hub tab doesn't touch the other disk hole side, because the hole has been indented out. So the disk is only turned with one tab. You might as well have left the old hub in with one tab, except for the still present play.
I have spoken with many owners doing this and have always tried to recommend to them to send their disk to TT or VAC to machine new OE size holes in them.
Further, even if a tab wasn't broken and a TT or VAC, or even Beisan, hub was being installed, the disk holes already have indentations in them from the embedding OE thinner hub tabs, and the new thicker hub tabs will only mate with the unintended outer edges of the disk hole side indentations. This is ok, but not a very good matting.
All this is why I always recommend installing a disk with new holes when installing a new hub, even if it is a new OE hub. The new tabs should always be allowed to mate and indent in new hole sides.
The Beisan hub product states to only install with a Beisan oil pump disk.

Your last question is perplexing. You want to install just one part, and you would prefer to install a VAC hub for $600 instead of a Beisan oil pump disk for $150, to effectively accomplish the same thing of removing the play. You are correct.
BTW from what I know, the VAC hub leaves .2mm hub tab to disk hole play. The Beisan disk leaves .05mm play. The original play is 1mm.

Hi Raj, thanks for the detailed response.

Agree with replacing both components since we're doing preventive maintenance already and, in this case, the whole thing is open already. Agree, too, with the cost comparison (actually had that exact comparison in my draft) but wanted to keep the discussion on the tech side of things.

Just wanted to go through the thought process as one point I was looking at is availability of parts in the long term. My car is 15yo (and others' are even older) and am planning to keep it until it dies ... not sure if it's a correct assumption that OEM parts will be available longer than "custom" ones but was thinking that, to be safe, it may be advantageous to use "ok" OEM parts as much as possible and just use replacement parts when those replacements "fix" something that's wrong with OEM ones (like, in this case, the play).

Anyway, am looking forward to getting my hub and pump disc replaced soon. As somebody mentioned earlier, the sad part is that these parts look too good to be hidden!

[mrgizmo04]

Hey Raj, good insight.

PM-ed you about a different topic. Let me know your thoughts when you have a chance.

[Rajaie]

For reputation alone, I suppose the Beisan hub sprocket + oil pump disc is is the way to go (seem to agree with the term "the ultimate solution").

However, am wondering about the following:

1. assuming nothing's broken and just doing preventive work: the combo of using the existing (OEM) oil pump disc but using the Beisan hub sprocket is still not ideal as the tabs will continue hammering the disc due to the play (Beisan tabs, although thicker are still same width as the OEM tabs) -- is this correct?
2. so, the Beisan oil pump disc should really accompany the use of the Beisan hub sprocket -- is this correct?
3. ECS has the VAC hub which supposedly has tabs wider than the OEM's and provide a better fit for the (OEM) oil pump disc holes. Would this be an alternative fix with just 1 part being changed?

Thanks.

If your hub tabs are not broken, there is no need to replace your hub. Once you install the Beisan oil pump disk with smaller holes, there is a 7 year 100% statistic that you will not experience a broken tab.
But if you insist on installing a new hub, you are correct that the Beisan hub, although with thicker tabs, does not have wider tabs, and will not remove the play with the OE disk large holes, and there will be hitting and possible rattling.

In my opinion, you should always install a new hub with a disk with new holes. This is needed to allow the hub tabs to mate and embed evenly into the new disk holes.This way you can be assured of the disk being turned by both tabs.
So many people have installed the TT or VAC hub to replace their hub with broken tab and used their old disk with old holes. This seems really crazy to me and I have not said anything about it, until now.
When a tab breaks, it always dents out the disk hole it breaks in. So, when a TT of VAC hub is installed with the old disk, only the hub tab in the undamaged disk hole contacts the disk hole side. The other hub tab doesn't touch the other disk hole side, because the hole has been indented out. So the disk is only turned with one tab. You might as well have left the old hub in with one tab, except for the still present play.
I have spoken with many owners doing this and have always tried to recommend to them to send their disk to TT or VAC to machine new OE size holes in them.
Further, even if a tab wasn't broken and a TT or VAC, or even Beisan, hub was being installed, the disk holes already have indentations in them from the embedding OE thinner hub tabs, and the new thicker hub tabs will only mate with the unintended outer edges of the disk hole side indentations. This is ok, but not a very good matting.
All this is why I always recommend installing a disk with new holes when installing a new hub, even if it is a new OE hub. The new tabs should always be allowed to mate and indent in new hole sides.
The Beisan hub product states to only install with a Beisan oil pump disk.

Your last question is perplexing. You want to install just one part, and you would prefer to install a VAC hub for $600 instead of a Beisan oil pump disk for $150, to effectively accomplish the same thing of removing the play. You are correct.
BTW from what I know, the VAC hub leaves .2mm hub tab to disk hole play. The Beisan disk leaves .05mm play. The original play is 1mm.

[stash1]

I don’t agree at all. Equally important to warn people away from companies that’ll ruin their cars as is to encourage the good ones.

Again, I hear you, and I agree that it's good to post the negative as well as positive experiences w/regards to vendors/companies...and services offered aside, I'm sure that not all of VAC's products are shite-lol. I would strongly encourage folks still do their own research, and then do more research, and decide for themselves. Ultimately, I'll let my dollars do the talking-lol.

[oceansize]

I get it Ian, and like you and a few others, I've got no love for them either...but I'm just saying that we should try and avoid making blanket statements (even about VAC). I want to support the vendors (like Raj) on here that really have our backs too, but we don't need to bash others.

I don’t agree at all. Equally important to warn people away from companies that’ll ruin their cars as is to encourage the good ones.

As an outside observer who isn't as plugged in to the BMW product development community at large as you all are it is super important to hear both sides. Ultimately if negative reviews, even if it is Obioban or Stash1, are given to a shop or product I'm going to decide where to spend my money but I do need to hear other people's experiences. I will absolutely pick a phone and call a shop and ask "what's up?" with whatever situation a forum poster has said. As a reasonable adult I understand that within a given shop/company there is usually good and bad individuals.

An example of why hearing the bad is important is the instance where I almost ordered a bunch of stuff from SG to then see a thread pop up on the old forum giving the lay of the land with respect to their ability to deliver as promised. Thank god that thread was made.

I would just advise people to weigh the reputation of the individual posting a bad review and what is the response from their peers after the review is posted. That said, second hand accounts are tough because loads of important details, and the devil truly is in the details, get left out.

[mrgizmo04]

🍿...

[Obioban]

I get it Ian, and like you and a few others, I've got no love for them either...but I'm just saying that we should try and avoid making blanket statements (even about VAC). I want to support the vendors (like Raj) on here that really have our backs too, but we don't need to bash others.

I don’t agree at all. Equally important to warn people away from companies that’ll ruin their cars as is to encourage the good ones.

[stash1]

Being local to them, I get to hear non stop VAC horror stories-- not just limited to my own experiences with them.

I get it Ian, and like you and a few others, I've got no love for them either...but I'm just saying that we should try and avoid making blanket statements (even about VAC). I want to support the vendors (like Raj) on here that really have our backs too, but we don't need to bash others.

[Obioban]

Congrats Raj, looks like another quality offering/solution for the platform. I'm no fan of VAC either, and I know your back story w/them, but I wouldn't automatically just condemn all of their parts. I personally think that the VAC hub looks like a quality piece as well, albeit at a higher price point. If this Beisan hub proves to be a 'bullet-proof' solution (and no reason to think that it won't), then just based on price point alone...I think that most folks will probably gravitate towards the Beisan hub anyway. Again, thanx for your continued support of the platform Raj!

Being local to them, I get to hear non stop VAC horror stories-- not just limited to my own experiences with them.

[stash1]

VAC is garbage-- I wouldn't trust them with any internal engine components.

Congrats Raj, looks like another quality offering/solution for the platform. I'm no fan of VAC either, and I know your back story w/them, but I wouldn't automatically just condemn all of their parts. I personally think that the VAC hub looks like a quality piece as well, albeit at a higher price point. If this Beisan hub proves to be a 'bullet-proof' solution (and no reason to think that it won't), then just based on price point alone...I think that most folks will probably gravitate towards the Beisan hub anyway. Again, thanx for your continued support of the platform Raj!

[eml]

VAC is garbage-- I wouldn't trust them with any internal engine components.

Thanks! That answers another (non-VANOS) question I was planning to ask.