Help diagnosing high water temps at track - Resolved? (not really!)

[GolanM3]

Obioban
Can you share any information you have on WW or TTFS tunes being harmful for these engines? I'm particularly interested in your experience/knowledge on the TTFS before I spend hundreds of $$$ on a new tune.

[Casa de Mesa]

I still don't get the WW distaste. I've used it in countless vehicles without a wiff of gunking or anything else that's a negative side affect. Granted, I haven't used it in years and perhaps the formula has changed or something.

Have no experience with TTFS so won't comment there.

[BigRussia]

Yup will probably skip on the WW as I'd like to keep this fresh new cooling system nice and clean without any future clogs or gunking!

And yeah I actually already had in mind for when I have the car back at my Indy for the radiator swap to also have him retune the car with HTE/Hassan. My Indy has started using him for tunes instead of TTFS so should work out great

[Obioban]

And the TTFS tune!

Yep.

[heinzboehmer]

seems like a good time to stop using water wetter, as well!

And the TTFS tune!

[Obioban]

My guess is the OEM will be an improvement over the CSF, and might suffice for your needs, however, looking at the units side by side, and the analysis data from the R&D process shared by Mishimoto, I'm certain the Mishimoto cooling capability is higher than the stock unit.

Having toured Mishimoto's facility, I'm not at all surprised that it isn't

[GolanM3]

My guess is the OEM will be an improvement over the CSF, and might suffice for your needs, however, looking at the units side by side, and the analysis data from the R&D process shared by Mishimoto, I'm certain the Mishimoto cooling capability is higher than the stock unit.

[Obioban]

When you put the OE rad it, seems like a good time to stop using water wetter, as well!

[BigRussia]

Post track day update: No real noticeable improvement on the cooling. Looks like its on to 'phase 2' and going with an OE genuine BMW radiator, still not set on going to mechanical stock fan as my car came with the mishimoto e-fan and previous owner did not give me any of the stock fan parts so would be a big out of pocket job to get the fan blade, clutch, shrouds and ducting, etc. Plus I at least redid the wiring on the e-fan so I could move the probe close to the water inlet for the most accurate reading (PO had the wiring too short and probe was mounted on the outlet side of the rad).

First session out on track I was naturally taking it easy and short shifting around 6k rpm, and still the water needle moved up from the 12 o'clock on its way to the 3/4 dot, seems the 3/4 dot is 210F on my car at least according to the OBDII output on my ultraguage. When I started pushing hard it hit a max of 217F, needle moved past the 3/4 dot but even then did not touch the red and car did not overheat. Next couple sessions I then drove with the heater on and that reduced the temps around 4-5 degrees, driving it easy staying around 210-213F, and was able to push hard for a couple laps and even set a new PB lol (at which point I would see 217F and let off pushing and started cooling down laps).

Overall I'm happy with how the car is performing other than this damn cooling issue still persisting, obviously was quite disappointed there was no real improvement considering everything that was changed w/ the cooling system refresh job (new condenser, new OE BMW WP / OEM t-stat (I originally suspected this sticking/faulty causing the issue)/ OEM sensors, AA underdrive pulleys replaced with stock so WP working full speed now, fresh coolant flush w 90/10+wetter n bleed). I was nervously anxious the issue wouldn't be 100% resolved since I was sure the CSF rad was the culprit, so not super disappointed with the results but was hoping that combination of stuff would at least have helped with the issue. Really hoping this CSF radiator is an early production with crap welds affecting the flow and possibly clogged.

[jet_dogg]

Or you could have simply used an oe rad for less and is not made in china.

I also quite enjoy when people use the term defective when describing their experience with csf radiators. Seems they are all defective in that case.

[GolanM3]

Update on radiator # 3 - Mishimoto:
A few days ago I finally had the time to put it in, but not before I took some measurements. It's most noticeable that is thicker than both stock and the CSF, about 1/4'' thicker. The fit and finish are better than the CSF as well. After the install I had to wait for the weather to warm up a little bit, and finally in the last couple of days we hit mid to high 80s.
I took it to the same road I've been testing my car for the last couple month, trying to troubleshoot this problem. When the overheating problem started, I would replace a component, take it to the backroads on the warm day, and after several high RPM pull, when the oil temps get up to around 250F, and the motor is heat soaked, is where I would see the coolant temps creeping up north of 205F and the needle start moving to the right.
Today and yesterday were totally different, the motor is running noticeably cooler, no matter how hard I tried with the Mishimoto, I couldn't get the coolant temp to go over 195F. I also noticed the heat dissipation is better, within seconds of getting off the throttle, the coolant temps will drop a couple of degrees, it certainly happens faster than with the CSF.
I don't know when I'll take it out for another track day, but I'm 99% that the problem has been solved, and the CSF radiator was insufficient or defective.

I'd also want to give kudos to ECS Tuning, who let me return the CSF radiator.

I hope that helps to those of you that still struggle with the overheating issues, I'd like to think I resolved mine... FINGERS CROSSED!!!🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞

[GolanM3]

The saga continues...now on radiator #3 😫

[Maxhouse97]

Love this thread, thanks BigRussia + everyone else. I’m relatively new to this platform and have tracked my 04 twice now. 133k miles, unfortunately I do not know how much of the original cooling system has been replaced since new. Accordingly at my first event in March at NCM I had no cooling issues. Last one at mid-Ohio, I had very similar issues to what BigRussia described.

So based on this I will go back and make sure everything is stock and I’m good condition. It is interesting to see some differences in recommendations relative to water/coolant ratio and water wetter. I’ll look up what the factory recommends. I do love the fact that OE seems to be best all around, makes sense and gives you confidence in the platform (I’ve made a commitment to this platform as a good trackable HPDE car after coming from a dead reliable 991).

Question on tunes - should I be worried about a Dinan tunes on the track?

[BigRussia]

Yes.

Yup, well if the issue is still persistently bad on the 25th then it's on to phase 2 which would involve replacing both those, the CSF w/ OE rad and possibly e-fan with stock mech fan.

My Indy and even his tech did want to get rid of the e-fan badly, but he wasn't convinced about the CSF being bad or a problem. I guess since he's had good enough experience with them on multiple customer cars including some NASA race cars. I did tell him I suspected it was the main culprit (besides my hunch it could be a sticky t-stat.. still gotta test the old one) and that many people on here and other forums seemed to have flow issues with defective ones. And mines got to be an early one since my cars previous owner had purchased it back in mid-June 2016.

[jet_dogg]

Yes.