Obioban's 2005 IR/IR Coupe

[S14]

Running DS2500s front and rear (the only track pad FCP sells)...

OK, you're pretty well read on most subjects, So what am I missing here?

When I plug in a 2002 porsche 911 into FCP's website, I get both the DS2500 and DS11's. A few months back you could get Hawk DTC 60 or 70 for the 911, but I don't see those offered any longer, weird.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/por...acing-frp3051w

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/por...acing-frp3051h

is a 2002 911 Carrera the wrong car to find parts for the 996 brembo upgrade?


DS2500 is a hybrid street/track compound, if they were trying to slow you down on nitto's, no wonder they didn't last!

[Obioban]

Ian, do you run any temp paint on the rotor or caliper? Would be interested to see if perhaps you're overcooling as opposed to the pads overheating.

I don't... but I suspect that's not the case, as was running them on the street for a bit without any rapid wear or deposits. I've also run a similar level of ducting with PF01s, PF11s, and RE10s without similar issues (albeit in the brembo calipers, but that should only mean they were running cooler).

[Apex_80]

Ian, do you run any temp paint on the rotor or caliper? Would be interested to see if perhaps you're overcooling as opposed to the pads overheating.

[mrgizmo04]

I think FCP also has ds1.11 and hawk dtc60/70 pads. Not sure about sizing for pcar calipers.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[r4dr]

Looking around at race pads for the 996 calipers, the pads are ~half the price of the same pads for the brembo calipers. I suppose if they last at least half as long, that'll still put me in free rotors through FCP... so I could fall back on that...

I was going to suggest something like PFC 08 or 11 -- they seem to favor dumping heat into the rotors which works well with your ducting. That way you still get FCP-funded ZCP floating rotors.

[r4dr]

Eh... the wob wob wob through the pedal and steering wheel that you feel when you hit the brakes, that people frequently call warped rotors (but aren't).

This. Also, the telltale sign is that it goes away with cold pads because they're hard enough at that temp to scrape them off.

I've only gotten bad deposits I could feel with Carbotech pads.

[Obioban]

Looking around at race pads for the 996 calipers, the pads are ~half the price of the same pads for the brembo calipers. I suppose if they last at least half as long, that'll still put me in free rotors through FCP... so I could fall back on that...

Feels exploitative to be doing a pad swap through FCP for every single track event I do (which seems likely it'll be necessary if I stick with the DS2500s)

[Obioban]

Can you please explain what you mean by “feel the deposit”?

Eh... the wob wob wob through the pedal and steering wheel that you feel when you hit the brakes, that people frequently call warped rotors (but aren't).

[duracellttu]

hard motorsports ducts and backing plates. So, my entire fog light area is being funneled directly into the rotor.

I couldn't feel the deposit, but I could see and hear them.

Can you please explain what you mean by “feel the deposit”?

[Obioban]

That matches my experience with DS2500 equivalent pads to a T. My usage was on a heavier (3800 lb) & 500+ HP car, but on Super Sports. They *disappear* but at least they don't lose bite. Sounds like you got them even hotter than I did, because I've never gotten deposits I could feel in the pedal, though the rotors don't look pretty.

What ducting do you have? Are you running hoses or just oversized funnels in the bumper without hoses?

hard motorsports ducts and backing plates. So, my entire fog light area is being funneled directly into the rotor.

I couldn't feel the deposit, but I could see and hear them.

[r4dr]

That matches my experience with DS2500 equivalent pads to a T. My usage was on a heavier (3800 lb) & 500+ HP car, but on Super Sports. They *disappear* but at least they don't lose bite. Sounds like you got them even hotter than I did, because I've never gotten deposits I could feel in the pedal, though the rotors don't look pretty.

What ducting do you have? Are you running hoses or just oversized funnels in the bumper without hoses?

[Obioban]

So, this weekend I did my first track event with the 996 brake setup. Results were... mixed. Running DS2500s front and rear (the only track pad FCP sells)...

pros:
-no fade
-pedal feel was good
-braking performance didn't feel worse in any way

Cons:
-I went through an entire set of pads in 2 days on track (vs 6-8 events on the brembos with RE10s, so figure 17-18 days on track)!
-pad deposits were formed, though they self cleaned when back to driving on the street (deposits did not form with the brembos)

... this is with my car having huge brake ducts and it being a moderate temp weekend (high of 77, low of 58, on my time on track).

So, not sure what to do. I'm going to stick with keeping the brembo in reserve for the short term. If FCP didn't exist, it would be a no brainer-- I'd be back to the Brembos immediately. But, with FCP math... a different set of pads every event actually isn't worse, per se... since I'm swapping between streets and tracks either way (so it's not even more work). It just feels a little abusive of their warranty...

I don't know, not super stoked-- I was hoping they'd do better, especially given my massive amount of ducting and 10% lighter than stock car.

Rotors (ZCP/CSL) didn't form any microcracks, so that's good.

[heinzboehmer]

Ah that kinda sucks. But also sounds like an interesting thing to mess around with. Might give disassembling the E9x code a shot sometime.

[terra]

Cool yeah that's what I thought. Any idea on the complexity of the coding? Might be fun to experiment with and without on track if flashing the thing is easy enough.

The people who know how to do it are keeping quiet. Presumably using some sort of undocumented function. From what I have heard, there's no evidence that the modules are physically cracked open (though I have never physically seen one myself to say for sure), so presumably the flashing is possible over K-line or CAN. Perhaps using some built in "boot mode" rather than the BMW communications protocols. Thus far I have not figured out any method to dump software, let alone reflash these things. There may well be no method to dump software - I think it's a (former?) continental engineer doing the flashes, so they probably had access to the original binaries without having to dump anything.

E9x generation MK60 modules are flashable via WinKFP so I thought that might be a good starting point to learn how to hack these things... but I can't figure out what kind of CPU the code belongs to to even disassemble the software. It's something made by Motorola/Freescale, but it doesn't appear to be ARM, PPC, or HCS12. Not sure what else to try

[Obioban]

Cool yeah that's what I thought. Any idea on the complexity of the coding? Might be fun to experiment with and without on track if flashing the thing is easy enough.

So far you have to pay someone to do it-- there's no DIY option. And it's pricey, from what I've heard... ~$1000. So, probably nobody will be doing it just to mess around with it and then flash back to stock for street use...