Harnesses without roll cages

[bigjae46]

The eternal argument amongst the track people...its like what kind of oil should I use?

I've always argued that the risk of a rollover is relatively low compared to other types of incidents on track in an HPDE environment. I think the video explains what happens in a rollover well. Although this is for the quick fit pro I found the data points and explanation to be different that my impression of what happens in a rollover.

[Obioban]

Every safety engineer I've ever spoken to (which is the industry I work in) says a multi point harness is significantly safer than a 3 point, with or without a roll bar. It also enables the use of a Hans, which is a gigantic safety benefit.

I think the FUD surrounding harnesses without rollbars has been one of the most detrimental things to happen to on track safety.

[SandeepM3]

Doesn't pertain to e46, but I've seen the new 3 series take multiple rolls and the cockpit structure was un-fazed.

[SandeepM3]

Every safety engineer I've ever spoken to (which is the industry I work in) says a multi point harness is significantly safer than a 3 point, with or without a roll bar. It also enables the use of a Hans, which is a gigantic safety benefit.

I think the FUD surrounding harnesses without rollbars has been one of the most detrimental things to happen to on-track safety.

I can attest to how beneficial the hans is. Hit the wall head-on at around 60-70mph and my neck was perfect the next day.

[bigjae46]

Every safety engineer I've ever spoken to (which is the industry I work in) says a multi point harness is significantly safer than a 3 point, with or without a roll bar. It also enables the use of a Hans, which is a gigantic safety benefit.

I think the FUD surrounding harnesses without rollbars has been one of the most detrimental things to happen to on track safety.

Agreed. The whole idea you can get out of the way of a roof caving in as you’re rolling is ridiculous. I’d bet that you don’t know what the right side up is until well after the car comes to a rest unless you’ve had a lot of practice (which raises other questions).

I was having an argument with a believer in this on FB last night. I went easy on him. I guess someone was using carpet tape to help hold them in the seat.


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[SQ13]

Doesn't pertain to e46, but I've seen the new 3 series take multiple rolls and the cockpit structure was un-fazed.

We have that E46 cliff diving vid. 😅

[foolio]

We have that E46 cliff diving vid. 😅

Always a classic.

[bigjae46]

This one?

[bigjae46]

Yeah, I’m just gonna duck out of the way…🤣

[eacmen]

Not all chassis design is the same. While harnesses with the E46 may be safe (and probably most modern chassis with rollover protectiom), its hard to mandate rules that apply fairly.

What is technically safe and what HPDE orgs will allow to pass tech are two different things. I know most orgs will allow the QFPs these days, but 3 years ago I failed tech with them.

Having been in a wreck with QFPs and HANS I am very glad I had them. My neck had zero issues.

[Jersey_M3]

I always thought these were illegal to run but this video made me interested in seeing if they would be a good investment. Sadly it looks like my HPDE won’t allow them

1. If car does not have a roll cage, a harness bar can be used to mount the shoulder belts when using a 4, 5 or 6-point harness. 4, 5 or 6 point harness is required for any vehicles equipped with a roll cage, minimum of 5 point is recommended.
2. Please refer to manufacture specs for proper installation and maintenance procedures.
3. If stock seats are used, oem seat belt must be used. Harnesses are not permitted for use with seats which do not have provisions for such.
4. If race seats are intended to be used with stock seat belt, the lap belt part of the seat belt must pass through the holes in the sides of the seat

[eacmen]

I always thought these were illegal to run but this video made me interested in seeing if they would be a good investment. Sadly it looks like my HPDE won’t allow them

1. If car does not have a roll cage, a harness bar can be used to mount the shoulder belts when using a 4, 5 or 6-point harness. 4, 5 or 6 point harness is required for any vehicles equipped with a roll cage, minimum of 5 point is recommended.
2. Please refer to manufacture specs for proper installation and maintenance procedures.
3. If stock seats are used, oem seat belt must be used. Harnesses are not permitted for use with seats which do not have provisions for such.
4. If race seats are intended to be used with stock seat belt, the lap belt part of the seat belt must pass through the holes in the sides of the seat

Which hpde group is this?

[S14]

This one?

Holy shit!

I've thought the fixed back seat w/ harnesses is a greater danger if the roof caves in vs a stock seat and a harness w/ a roof cave in.
What scares me is 35 year old stock seats in an E30 with a harness bar and harnesses.

[Jersey_M3]

Which hpde group is this?

https://www.stackedontrack.com/

[eacmen]

https://www.stackedontrack.com/

Honestly, They should make an exception for the quick fits. I would reach out and ask. You can ref the tech guides for local pca, cca, etc.

The benefits of HANS should sell itself.