The make or break question....

[Mike RT4]

If you compare VLN fastest lap in Manthey GT3 (24.3km 8:03) to Manthey GT3 Spa lap time (7km 2:21) there isn't much difference in average speed.

The Sport Auto lap time for cars (where the CSL and GTR achieved 7.50 and 7.22 respectively) is only over 20.6km of the circuit (compared to the full lap of 20.832km).

The combined circuit for VLN races is 25.947km and I thought that the lap record for that was still held by Uwe Alzen at 8:18 in 2012 in the BMW Z4 GTE car?

I'm not sure what circuit combination is used to achieve 24.3km, but what-ever it is, it isn't the normal Sport Auto 20.6k .

[O'Neill]

OK lets do another, btg, 19.1km 7:43 CSL driven by Peter (Scandinavian on Northloop) PBox files to prove.

Spa 7km 2:49 (Shimmy, some bloke on here) average speed nearly same again.

Ring full circuit average speed is faster as it has a long flat out straight.

[billyboysm3]

OK lets do another, btg, 19.1km 7:43 CSL driven by Peter (Scandinavian on Northloop) PBox files to prove.

Spa 7km 2:49 (Shimmy, some bloke on here) average speed nearly same again.

Ring full circuit average speed is faster as it has a long flat out straight.

Put a leash on her Turkish,before she gets bitten! And you don't want to get bitten now, do you sweetheart!

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Quote- ''Gorilla,
I do not understand why you are quoting lap times at Spa achieved by cars that do not run at the 'ring, so no comparison can be made.''


There you go again with those assumptions.

I stated that Spa was quicker than the Ring and was
proven by the stopwatch, you disagreed.

Now your trying to add another diemension by ''assuming''
F1 Cars do not run at the Ring, when any car can test
or run at the Ring, F1 cars included.

F1 cars have run the Ring last recorded was the
BMW with Heidfield.

Spa is still faster.

BMW's PR Stunt at the Ring backfired big time with
Heidfield driving, so much, that it was turned into a
''Photo Shoot''.
Even on ''Best calculations'' he got nowhere near
the Belloff time.

A modern F1 Car will not get anywhere near the
Bellof Time at the Ring.

Read the article and maybe you will understand
why no F1 car is ever going to be faster around the
Ring than Spa.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/bmw-f1-car-hits-ring

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Mike RT4]

Being a regular at the 'ring, I completely understand why an F1 car won't be "quick"* around there - the same reason F1 cars struggle up the hill at Goodward (you only have to watch the Mclaren record breaking run to see how unsuitable the car is on that surface), and Nick very candid in his comments that the car could go much faster, if it wasn't for the surface condition of the track, which meant he had to back out of the throttle where on a smooth surface it would be pinned.

*As in to it's full potential, if the circuit was "suitable" for these cars.

I was of the belief that we were originally discussing road registered cars, all of which put in faster average speeds at the 'ring than they do at Spa, where your original argument was used to attempt to debunk the lap times that the Schirmer cars were putting in at the 'ring, because it was your belief that these cars should be putting in faster average speed times at Spa compared to the 'ring, when it was vice-versa from the evidence and times achieved by these actual cars.

So far all I have seen is evidence of road car lap times for the 'ring giving faster average speeds than their times at Spa, which does not support your theory of it being the other way round.

[Mike RT4]

OK lets do another, btg, 19.1km 7:43 CSL driven by Peter (Scandinavian on Northloop) PBox files to prove.

Spa 7km 2:49 (Shimmy, some bloke on here) average speed nearly same again.

Ring full circuit average speed is faster as it has a long flat out straight.

Unfortunately you're comparing two different cars (I believe Shimmy's car is on 18s for track use) along with two different driver skill levels.

You can only get a true indication with the same car and driver with equal circuit knowledge of each track.

Even if they're nigh on identical, it doesn't support the Primate's argument that Spa is the faster circuit.

[O'Neill]

Too many variables as you and Nathan have stated.

I'm in agreement that ring average speed is higher.

[DuncanR]

Too many variables as you and Nathan have stated.

I'm in agreement that ring average speed is higher.

My average speed between the Ring and Spa ..is even higher !:hahaha:

As a footnote, based on past info and facts, I wouldn't recommend anyone on here to try and do better than 7:40 in a non seriously tricked out CSL, even with AP's, and Intrax, cage etc. at our level, that IS a very quick lap for a TF day.

[shimmy]

Unfortunately you're comparing two different cars (I believe Shimmy's car is on 18s for track use) along with two different driver skill levels.

You can only get a true indication with the same car and driver with equal circuit knowledge of each track.

Even if they're nigh on identical, it doesn't support the Primate's argument that Spa is the faster circuit.

IS Peter better than me then :bigcry:

[northernjim]

Where is the proof of a Schirmer car on road legal tyres doing a 7.22?

It was on slicks when he did that time.....

- the 7.22 full lap is what I was told by the owner of the above white car, and that the black car has now also got down to a 7:05 BTG....

A 7:22 full lap would have a btg lap of around 7min... Or do you mean that BARRY from eastenders has done 7:05 on a tourist day?

Car weight: abt.1600kg with driver
The car has unbelievable handling and balance
"It is all about the handling - not horsepower"

So 431HP and 1600kg is faster than 1320kg and 620HP which happens to be Porsche's best car...
Makes you wonder :whistle:

Comparing the wrong thing Alex- 1600 kg on the road, versus 1320 kg plus driver,fuel (and fluids probably)

plus the weight balance of the M3 has got to make it so much easier to drive than the gt2 don't you think?? The gt2rs does the ring in 7:18 apparently, what layout - 20.8km or 20.6km I don't know?



There are too many unknowns for us to conclusively say anything apart from the fact that........ \/ \/

IS Peter better than me then :bigcry:

:goodman:

[O'Neill]

IS Peter better than me then :bigcry:

Theoretically no as his average speed is slower on a supposedly faster track:smokin:

It seems though Spa and BTG average speeds for mid powered road cars are similar.

In the Honda I'm roughly the same (8:30 BTG 3:04 Spa) a couple of guys in e36 M3s (Just over 8 mins BTG 2:58-3 mins Spa) and e46 M3s (under 8 BTG 2:56 Spa)

iamanerd:-D

[northernjim]

Theoretically no as his average speed is slower on a supposedly faster track:smokin::gayfight::gayfight:

It seems though Spa and BTG average speeds for mid powered road cars are similar.

In the Honda I'm roughly the same (8:30 BTG 3:04 Spa) a couple of guys in e36 M3s (Just over 8 mins BTG 2:58-3 mins Spa) and e46 M3s (under 8 BTG 2:56 Spa)

iamanerd:-D

I'm 8:06btg and 3:04Spa!! would be nice to have done it on a dry day tho:birdman:

[O'Neill]

I'm 8:06btg and 3:04Spa!! would be nice to have done it on a dry day tho:birdman:

You should be under 3mins in the dry with the btg Spa formula:blalalala:

[glendog74]

I'm 8:06btg and 3:04Spa!! would be nice to have done it on a dry day tho:birdman:

You're not trying hard enough Jim Bob :finga:

[northernjim]

feck that - Imagine how quick Shim is at the ring then! :thumbs::hahaha: