What do you think about the M3 GTS?

[Pip1968]

The Schirmer M3 always sounds and looks good at the Nordschleife. I am not sure how different it is from the GTS but I would have that over the bright orange behemoth.

I think the picture above is a Schirmer M3 and not the GTS.

Pip

[_Nathan_]

It is, imagine that with a 4.4 engine

[E46CSL]

Schirmer M3
Alpina B3 GT3
M3 GTS

All highly focused cars and all aimed at a slightly different audience. In years to come, which one will be most highly regarded?

The CSL is a very tough act to follow, and will be even more highly regarded in the future, regardless of whether the newer cars are faster i.e. M4

[_Nathan_]

GTS will come to be seen in same or better light than csl, remember the reviews when the csl came out saying not worth the money, couple of years later they all changed their minds...

[E46CSL]

It is, imagine that with a 4.4 engine

Are you surprised they only managed 30 more bhp over the 4.0 E92 M3?

[_Nathan_]

Nah, it was only done for homologation for the z4, no need to push it, we know what the potential of the 4.4 engine is from the race program.

[alexk]

Nah, it was only done for homologation for the z4, no need to push it, we know what the potential of the 4.4 engine is from the race program.

It just happens that the engine is completely different apart from being a V8 and 4.4lt.

[motorsv8]

thank you vrey much for yours answers...

[Mike RT4]

Not heard of anyone doing a 7:25 BTG in a completely standard car even with the proper flying start, 25 seconds over a lap is a lifetime, even on a long track. Most of the guys doing 7:40ish BTG laps have dampers, brakes, weight removed, wider front wheels etc.

Anyway, my point stands, over multiple laps a standard GTS would leave a standard CSL for dead IMO, modified further still.

E92 has much more potential than e46, just expensive to unlock it.



Standard engine, 7:22 full lap...

The Schirmer cars are quite extensively modified:
Firstly they do run a full Akraprovic exhaust system, which is supposed to release a good 20bhp, then they are gutted (just two race seats) and caged, with the weight reduced to an astonishing 1450kg. They then reduce the final drive with a Drenth rear diff and fit gearbox, engine and diff coolers (my mate was convinced it was supercharged, mistaking these for an intercooler LOL). The suspension is changed to Schirmer specced Nitrons and the wheels go down to lighter BBS 18s with APs all round and combined with the additional aero, the owner of the car pictured does comfortable 7:05s BTG :notworthy: .

[_Nathan_]

That's kinda my point, lots of caged, 2 seat, suspension, brakes, exhaust modified CSLs and no one is anywhere near a 7:05 btg. E92 chassis really is excellent, just blunted by the weight of the car as standard.

Pretty sure it'll be a Drexler rear diff, makes a big difference, hence BMW motorsport using them for non transaxle applications.

http://drexler-motorsport.eu/page/de/drexler-motorsport.php

[alexk]

Hi Nathan,

I think Steve Gill's racing car had done 7:30ish full lap.
From memory stripped, caged, brakes, short ratio diff.

I think we need to compare apples to apples.
Which in my opinion is to have a very tuned CSL (as the Schirmer E92s) and using the same and capable driver drive both in the same conditions.

I have also seen this in the M3 E30 community.
They want to compare DTM specced M3 E30s with a CSL in stock configuration. At the same time they claim that the M3 E30 is "road legal".
That's plain silly.

I don't know the specs of the Schirmer E92s. I would love to find out, so if someone knows all details please share (for example changed wishbones, suspension details).

[Mike RT4]

That's kinda my point, lots of caged, 2 seat, suspension, brakes, exhaust modified CSLs and no one is anywhere near a 7:05 btg. E92 chassis really is excellent, just blunted by the weight of the car as standard.

Pretty sure it'll be a Drexler rear diff, makes a big difference, hence BMW motorsport using them for non transaxle applications.

http://drexler-motorsport.eu/page/de...motorsport.php

You're correct - I always get Drenth and Drexler mixed up :119:

[Mike RT4]

Hi Nathan,

I think Steve Gill's racing car had done 7:30ish full lap.
From memory stripped, caged, brakes, short ratio diff.

I think we need to compare apples to apples.
Which in my opinion is to have a very tuned CSL (as the Schirmer E92s) and using the same and capable driver drive both in the same conditions.

I have also seen this in the M3 E30 community.
They want to compare DTM specced M3 E30s with a CSL in stock configuration. At the same time they claim that the M3 E30 is "road legal".
That's plain silly.

I don't know the specs of the Schirmer E92s. I would love to find out, so if someone knows all details please share (for example changed wishbones, suspension details).

They definitely do do something (as they refer to revised suspension kinematics), but it is almost impossible to find any definitive information on this, as Schirmer don't seem to even have a website - perhaps Sam can shed some light on this?

[_Nathan_]

Steve's car was a full racing car built from bare shell with a dg400 box and slicks, aftermarket management etc, not a road legal car.

Shirmer offers a revised motorsport axle system for the e92, is was around 20k euro I think, dunno if those cars have it but you'd assume so.

[alexk]

I had a look at the race cars times @ the Ring.

2005 24h race - E46 M3 GTR (this had the same setup with our cars and not the special rear axle found in the Spa configuration GTR). Best laptime in the race 08.47,602 and best in qualifying 08.45,323

2010 24h race - E92 M3 GT2 (with a transaxle gearbox, so not the same thing with the road car setup). Best laptime in tthe race 08.32,644 and best in qualifying 8:32 as well.

So the two race versions, although the GT2 has a different setup on the rear axle are not very far away.
Just makes me think again what the difference between the two cars would be in similar spec.