retrofit brake kit bmw performance

[northernjim]

The AP discs are also 4mm thicker (32 vs. 28) so the vents are 'bigger'.
Plus, the more metal you have, the more heat capacity you have.
I think the discs are making a difference, but I agree that the big difference comes from the calipers.

to slow a car down you create heat.....


it is how you deal with the heat that is created that ensures a fade free confidence inspiring performance from your brakes.


The AP kit is the sum of its parts - IMO ( I am no expert in anything apart from girls boobs tbh:notworthy

bigger discs - bigger thermal mass - (maintaining an operating temp is also vital for safe and prolonged life) centrifugal effect vanes to expel air through the disc

thicker pads to insulate pistons from the working surface ( there is a reason why race pads are 32mm thick { and teams discard them when they are less than half worn})

aluminium caliper for better dispersion of heat

higher rated fluid to withstand prolonged temps.



Everytime I ring questmead asking what the latest and best pad is they keep asking - "got any cooling yet jim...":smt102

[DuncanR]

With OeM I had both lad fade and fluid boiling. Only on very rare cases I have had a soft pedal with AP set up

You just cant stay off the subject can you ? did you tire the little bugger out then ? :gayfight:

[mattCSLnut]

Will have a look at a CSL disk at some point as I'm just going on memory but pretty sure they also have directional vanes to suck air in at the centre and expel it at the outer edge.

Here's a pic of a brand new CSL disc so you don't have to ramage through your garage looking for one

[_Nathan_]

Spoke to him, far more complex than my brain can cope with, single piston calipers causing thermo-elastic instability through hot spots, vane design not just being about cooling but also anti coning, csl disk being good as radial expansion is dealt with by the semi floating design which promotes even heat distribution compared to disks that might cone under expansion, bigger pad area and more pistons spread over wider area better at preventing heat from getting in to calipers and ultimately fluid, 99% of heat goes in to disk, larger heat capacity just means it takes longer to reach same temp. All in very complicated so I just asked him in terms of resisting fluid fade only what he would rather have:

A) csl disks and ap calipers
B) ap disks and csl calipers

He said a.

No idea what that means in the context of this thread though :thumbs:

[grumps]

Having used the porsche set up the same as matt i didn't get any fading at llandow!this was using rs29's i have now fitted an ap kit and its much better than the porsche set up and still no fade

[magnust]

I drove a M3 E46 last year on track with these BMW performance calipers plus CSL disks. The pads that came with the kit (EBC Redstuff) went from brand new and bedded in to.... well nothing, on only one track meet. Actually, the pads didn't look worn down, they looked like they'd melted!!! Not impressed. My guess is that the calipers could work fine if you could get decent pads like PFC08. What I've heard though, which might be wrong, is that it's hard to get good pads due to an unusual size/layout of the pads in these calipers. But this last bit might be an internet rumour so if you're interested in this setup do some proper googling.

I would never buy this kit though! On my CSL I just run cooling hoses and good pads ( PFC08 ) plus high performance brake fluid, that's all. That solved all overheating and high-wear issues on track. And PFC08 is the first PFC pad I've used that works pretty good on the street.

But if you still want a BBK there are other better ones to choose from than the BMW performance kit. IMHO.

[born2boost]

I drove a M3 E46 last year on track with these BMW performance calipers plus CSL disks. The pads that came with the kit (EBC Redstuff) went from brand new and bedded in to.... well nothing, on only one track meet. Actually, the pads didn't look worn down, they looked like they'd melted!!! Not impressed. My guess is that the calipers could work fine if you could get decent pads like PFC08. What I've heard though, which might be wrong, is that it's hard to get good pads due to an unusual size/layout of the pads in these calipers. But this last bit might be an internet rumour so if you're interested in this setup do some proper googling.

I would never buy this kit though! On my CSL I just run cooling hoses and good pads ( PFC08 ) plus high performance brake fluid, that's all. That solved all overheating and high-wear issues on track. And PFC08 is the first PFC pad I've used that works pretty good on the street.

But if you still want a BBK there are other better ones to choose from than the BMW performance kit. IMHO.

I've heard nothing good about the entire EBC range of pads for the track....every single person I've spoken to who's used them says they're crap.

Was there any unusual pedal feel while driving that car? Did it have both front and rear calipers fitted? Just wondering if the brake bias changed much by changing the calipers...?

I use PF pads on my E36 M3 Race car with stock calipers, decent brake ducts, braided lines and AP 660 Fluid....and this setup works great for continuous hammering of the brakes on the circuit....

[alexk]

I drove a M3 E46 last year on track with these BMW performance calipers plus CSL disks. The pads that came with the kit (EBC Redstuff) went from brand new and bedded in to.... well nothing, on only one track meet. Actually, the pads didn't look worn down, they looked like they'd melted!!! Not impressed. My guess is that the calipers could work fine if you could get decent pads like PFC08. What I've heard though, which might be wrong, is that it's hard to get good pads due to an unusual size/layout of the pads in these calipers. But this last bit might be an internet rumour so if you're interested in this setup do some proper googling.

I would never buy this kit though! On my CSL I just run cooling hoses and good pads ( PFC08 ) plus high performance brake fluid, that's all. That solved all overheating and high-wear issues on track. And PFC08 is the first PFC pad I've used that works pretty good on the street.

But if you still want a BBK there are other better ones to choose from than the BMW performance kit. IMHO.

Pagid has created pads for the BMW-Brembo calipers :thumbs:

[magnust]

I've heard nothing good about the entire EBC range of pads for the track....every single person I've spoken to who's used them says they're crap.

Was there any unusual pedal feel while driving that car? Did it have both front and rear calipers fitted? Just wondering if the brake bias changed much by changing the calipers...?

I use PF pads on my E36 M3 Race car with stock calipers, decent brake ducts, braided lines and AP 660 Fluid....and this setup works great for continuous hammering of the brakes on the circuit....

I know of endless testimonies here in Sweden of epic fails with EBC pads on track. So it was totally expected they would fail on my friends car that had this kit on it. But amazingly enough I know a few (very few...) endurance racing teams running successfully on EBC pads. But then, light cars and narrow tires (class regulations).

The car only had the front kits on it. Pedal feel, well, nothing to write home about IMHO. But with the pads totally out of their depth and on the verge on total meltdown the pedal feel was probably more about the pads getting mushy than anything else. So can't say how the calipers could feel with good pads.

And then braking balance, that also has a lot to do with your choice of pads back and front. So not much use to know how this particular setup behaved IMHO. The whole car was pretty tail happy in it's setup but no nervousness during braking (which also is a question of toe...). All in all I don't think getting good braking balance would be a problem after trying different rear pads to fine tune it.

Great news that Pagid are making pads for the calipers! Pagid really do make good pads. (But not as abuse resistant as PFC in real high temp scenarios IMO)

[Clubber]

Thread resurrection.

I found a company in Germany who sell this BMW Performance upgrade for the CSL. They made their own adapter for E46 M3 and th whole setup sells for a reasonable price compared to AP's, Brembo's etc.

Many people are happy with this upgrade but this thread made me think twice. Has anyone have this setup or has any experience with it ?

[J2LTB]

A friend with a e46 m3 bought the cutters group buy PBMW calipers and Csl discs . Hes very impressed with them. Fitment was good. He's not been on track as yet with them though.

[Neil M]

I Run Hel (German) hoses, AP 600 fluid and RS29 pads on OEM calipers, a bit of squeal from the pads when they're cold, but wakes up pedestrians first thing in the morning :-D

[sydown]

I have been running the BMW Performance caliper on my CSL with RS-29's. The whole setup, fitting kit, calipers, motul RB600 and pads came in at approx £1050. Compared to the standard setup they are miles better, there is a very slight increase in pedal travel but bags of feel. However they are quite heavy when compared to a AP caliper.

30 minute sessions at Donnington didn't cause the setup any issues and the brakes felt as good at the end as at the beginning!!

I did run EBC yellowstuff in the back and melted them in 1 track day, at £60 for rear pads they really are false economy.

So for a budget brake upgrade I can definitely recommend the BMW Performance setup.

[sydown]

If anyone is interested using the BMW Performance caliper on the front and the standard CSL caliper on the rear changes the brake bias from:

Standard CSL calipers: Front 63.89 - Rear 36.11 (1.769:1)

to

BMW P front std CSL rear: Front 60.41 - Rear 39.59 (1.525:1)

It does mean the rears work slightly harder than before but still feels perfectly balanced.

[Clubber]

Thank you all for the feedback. It is nice to hear some positive comments about this kit. It looks like this will be my choice of BBK. Besides, If I want to upgrade to AP etc. later on, these will be easier to resell for E90-E92-E82 compatibility.
What would you guys recommend for rear upgrade ? Steel hose and some good pads enough ?